Is it just me?

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This topic contains 37 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Ivy 1 week, 3 days ago.

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  • #27597

    Ivy
    Participant

    When I saw that Jeffrey Epstein had committed suicide my first thought was, “No surprise there.”….then it was one of, “Good riddance.”

    Sorry but that’s the truth. Karma is a bitch! 😂

    Is it just me? How do you see his suicide? It’s been a little disturbing to me to see certain people express so much “concern” about how the DOJ handled it. I’m thinking to myself, “who gives a shit? One less pedo to worry about…

    #27599

    Davis
    Participant

    How do you see his suicide?

    It is an extreme injustice for several reasons. The biggest being: we finally have an extremely strong case against a high profile sexual-abuser and a chance to draw attention to the extremely serious problem of sexual assault/harassment etc, and before he even has his day in court…boom he is gone. No justice for the victims and even worse, all the information he had on other high profile pedophiles and rapists and sex traffickers is gone with him. This was, seriously, a devastating blow for sexual-assault activists and the numerous rape victims of him and his scum-brain creeps.

    The other obvious take away from this is the horror of the New York justice system. Systemic guard abuse, violence, rape etc is a chronic problem in many states and it is met with indifference. On special ballot measures to improve prisoners rights are voted down more and supported. Politicians are hesitant to introduce laws on prisoners rights. A strong narrative being the criminals deserve what they get. Cases of suspicious deaths, suicides that should have been avoided, guard abuse are only taken seriously if there are lawsuits or if it garners serious media attention (which isn’t that often) and even then this doesn’t lead to much change. People are suggesting he was assasinated somehow by his powerful friends or the royal family etc. I’m not going to play the speculation game but I wouldn’t be particularly shocked if it turns out that way. Im just as equally disposed to the likely possibility that this case comes down to a low level of concern for prisoner’s welfare, incompetence and bad policies. It’s hard to imagine you’ll get much reliable information from the coming inquiry.

    #27601

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The civil cases against his estate will continue and investigators may continue to look into any co-conspirators who are involved in this case.

    #27604

    Ivy
    Participant

    @davis

    So you don’t think the fact that he is dead is justice enough? You said that you would have rather seen him be killed by the state instead of having the control of doing it himself? Either way he’s gone. And the truth will come out with or without him. One less asshole on this planet to worry about. I was actually kind of laughing about it thinking, “Oh poor baby, you couldn’t handle a few nights in “real jail?” Hahahaha….It just goes to show how incredibly weak he was.

    #27605

    Ivy
    Participant

    I suspect he was probably scared of the other prisoners LOL. It was too much for him to handle. Pedophiles are not treated well in prison.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by  Ivy.
    #27608

    Davis
    Participant

    No him committing suicide is mostly avoiding justice. He won’t sit in court and listen to the endless evidence of his crimes. Victims telling the court in devastating detail how they suffered and their lives will never be the same. He won’t go through the public humiliation (which is not important to me but is for those Americans clanging to see him suffer). But as I said . that’s hardly as important as:

    Information he could give that could implicate other rich privelaged rapists and sex traffickers who almost always get away with their rape and sex slave trafficking. And his friends won’t have to take the stand and either lie or admit to the disgusting illegal things they did. That is what I mean by justice more than him suffering. I’m completely disinterested in that kind of “justice” and I think it’s a very toxic way to deal with crime. My concern are the rape victims and future possible rape victims.

    #27609

    Ivy
    Participant

    @davis

    He won’t sit in court and listen to the endless evidence of his crimes. Victims telling the court in devastating detail how they suffered and their lives will never be the same.

    You bring up good points….Thing is: even if he did see his day in court, the odds are justice still wouldn’t be served. You realize how many men like him doing the same crimes are NEVER brought to justice? Most men who commit sexual assault of ANY kind are never even CHARGED….Less than 1% last  time I checked. Sure you could say because his was SOOOOOO much worse….I’ll give you that. But it would be so much more devastating as a  victim to tell your story and for “justice” to still not be served….there’s a very good chance some of his victims could become targets for speaking out publicly. They are spared the risk and humiliation too. And they can sleep at night knowing he’s dead.

    As far as him helping bringing others to justice….maybe. That’s a total coin toss. Justice is rarely served. Me personally???? My attitude is one of good bye and good riddance. And I hope he rots in hell.

    #27610

    Ivy
    Participant

    ….one more thing….even if he did hear his victims stories doesn’t mean he would feel any remorse.

    #27611

    Ivy
    Participant

    I’m not disagreeing with you….but if I’m being honest him being dead was a sigh of relief. As a survivor of a lot of shit I wasn’t looking forward to seeing his ugly face every day on the news every time I pulled up cnn for the next several months if not years.

    I cannot help but wonder if his victims didn’t feel the same way….

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  Ivy.
    #27613

    As I see it and similar matters, it is the victims that deserve justice and the perpetrators that deserve punishment. It is very unlikely that Epstein was acting alone. I think it would be naïve to believe there were no co-conspirators who were equally guilty of being involved in a pedophile ring with him as the main facilitator. How could he fly his 200-seater jet, the “Lolita Express” to “Pedophile Island” without help?

    While his death deprives the victims of justice, they may feel he has been punished. But that is a temporary sensation. On reflection I think they will feel angry at being denied their day in court.  Having his bank accounts and assets frozen and used as some form of compensation to his victims after he was given a “fair trial and found guilty” would have brought a degree of justice. As for punishment, is his suicide really punishment? Would not ten or more years behind bars, knowing his lavish lifestyle was over for good and knowing he would never be able to indulge in his deviant behavior again not have been better. Death is not a punishment and there is no hell for him to rot in. While I think the world is a better place without him not only would it be punishment but it would also give the victims some closure to know that they were now safe, had their stories heard and believed, giving financial compensation (a secondary concern) and could in the back of their minds have a sense of schadenfreude at his incarceration.

    The other participants in his pedophile ring would also have been wealthy and moved in similar social circles. Are they going to be punished? Will they continue to abuse? Yes, of course they will. Epstein’s death will allow them anonymity for longer. The promise of his own cell in a low security facility might have persuaded him to talk.

    The punishment should fit the crime. Epstein was not punished. He was stopped from committing more crimes. It now could be years before the victims get justice as they were also abused by other people whose names Epstein could have revealed. Justice delayed is justice denied.

    #27614

    ….one more thing….even if he did hear his victim’s stories doesn’t mean he would feel any remorse.

    So what? Nobody would care if he was remorseful. He would still be going to prison for the rest of his life. It is often more important to the victims to have their day in court, to face the person who abused them and tell their story. Knowing that they are telling the truth and that they are being believed is often all they want. Punishing the accused is of secondary importance to them and most have little or no interest in financial compensation other than to use it to rebuild their lives. Being heard and being believed is what they want. Epstein, selfish to the end, has denied them that opportunity. So we know his only remorse was for getting caught.

    I have spoken with victims of clerical abuse and almost always their only concern was to have their day in court and to be believed. Knowing their abuser could no longer abuse was important but having their voice heard was more important to them. It was a turning point in their lives from where they could move on. Epstein and his gang are cut from the same cloth as the pedophile priests of the Catholic Church.

    #27615

    Ivy
    Participant

    So what? Nobody would care if he was remorseful

    I respectfully disagree. A lot of times for victims who to tell their stories, the act of doing so it’s like reliving it all over again. I know for me, when I have faced people who have hurt me, And they are not remorseful, It doesn’t make me feel better. In a sense it actually gives them more power because they know they are still living in my head rent free. In a sense it’s like they are still hurting me, but they get to mosey along like nothing happened. In a sense it’s like giving them power. And knowing somebody like him, His fancy-schmancy lawyer would either get him off the hook, or greatly reduce his sentence or something. Not unlike what we see with Donald Trump where he does shit over and over and keeps getting away with it. That’s WORSE. And for some victims, telling their story is not healing. Especially if it Has to be done in front of the world. People are haters online now. And the me too movement has become over to top ridiculous to the point that the REAL victims like the ones he hurt would most definitely suffer from the world wide exposure. This is one of the reasons that I have been kind of pissed about the way the me too movement has unfolded. It has actually made a lot of things worse not better. There are many ways that the other perpetrators can be brought to justice. The problem is, wealthy men rarely get justice anyway. And any justice that is handed down it’s more like a slap on the wrist.

    When I honestly imagine the difference between getting up in front of the world having to divulge my story, or knowing that my perpetrator died and is gone forever… I would much rather know that he’s just gone forever and not have to talk about it. Talking about it in front of people who don’t care is worse.

    #27616

    Ivy
    Participant

    That’s the hole in the city until proven guilty burden of proof bullshitWhile his death deprives the victims of justice, they may feel he has been punished. But that is a temporary sensation. On reflection I think they will feel angry at being denied their day in court.

    For me personally having to go to court is worse. Do you know what they do to victims in court? Try to make them look stupid. Trying to poke holes in their story. Drag up their past. Try to find any reason why they might be lying…You would think that the victims were the perpetrators not the other way around the way they treat them. That’s not really justice either is it? That may not be the way we would like things to be done but that’s the way they are actually done. That’s the whole “innocent until proven guilty burden of proof” bullshit…

    #27617

    Ivy
    Participant

    I think the whole idea of “Having your day in court,” For the victims to see “justice served”…The reality is that’s like Believing in pink unicorns. It is never that utopian.

    #27619

    Davis
    Participant

    In any case, whether some would find a humiliating trial a horror or a joke, if confronting your abuser would be cathartic or hell I still think it is pretty irrelevant compared to the most important aspects:

    1. A public trial forces the issue out in the open, boys and girls are easily enslaved for sex, thrown from one rich scum-bucket to the next and they almost ALWAYS get away with it. If even a few people take this seriously, increase sexual assault activism, inspire a few more prosecutions, and a few more people stop denying sexual assault happens way more than they think, if just a few more police encouraged to not wave away every rape case that crosses their desk. That’s a very good thing. Small changes are better than the virtual non-change over the last few decades.

    2. Implicating and possibly prosecuting other rich scum-buckets.

    3. Valuable information for many reasons.

    These opportunities are lost. Yes, in a sense it’s good that this human-waste is no longer bringing down the average rating of human character…his death is a major loss for a lot of people and opportunities. And it also says a LOT about the dismal state of prisons in New York. Imagine cheating on your taxes and ending up in a terrible prison and then finding yourself being beaten up and raped in jail while guards do nothing and most Americans show total indifference to this. Imagine this person is someone you care about. They committ suicide during a moment of mental weakness when it could have easily been avoided. That’s what happened. The fact that Epstein was a monster who never would have gotten out is irrelevant. His case is just the tip of the iceberg.

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