Is it just me?

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This topic contains 37 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Ivy 1 week, 3 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 38 total)
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  • #27620

    Ivy
    Participant

    @davis

    You know, I rarely talk about this on here but… Correctional officers always have been the bastard stepchild of law-enforcement. And we get a really bad name. I think I read somewhere that the officers on duty or on their overtime. This is something that is so common place. When shit hits the fan it’s very easy to just blame the correctional officers. But what people don’t see every day, day in and day out the work that they put in. It’s not just New York that this is a problem. It is all over the entire country. Correctional officers are required to work overtime and they cannot say no. Especially if they are new, and not covered by the union yet… They absolutely cannot say no. I’ve worked in an environment like that when I was a correctional officer, and I’m telling you that it’s real easy to point the finger at them, and stay the jail is all fucked up….But it’s because they’re always understaffed. Cops on the street have it easy. All they have to do is drag them in with handcuffs and drop them off. Corrections officers have to keep them safe, alive, and at least clean and fed. It never makes the news when they do something heroic. The fact of the matter is that the correctional officers on duty that night we’re not the ones that made the call to take him off of suicide watch. They were just doing their job. Apparently not very well. But shit, they were on the second half of their 16 hour day, and who knows how many of those 16 hour days they had to work in a row before that day….I’m just saying…

    Yeah, you make some really good points. I guess you’re right. But as for me? I’m really glad the motherfucker is dead. I hope his victims get the justice they deserve. Whatever justice is….

    #27621

    Ivy
    Participant

    ….But I’ll tell you the truth… I have given up waiting for any government or institution to hand out justice for me. And if any of his victims happened to be reading this post, what I would say to that person is that I hope that you find peace within yourself. Don’t expect anybody to hand you peace in the form of real justice. Real justice does not exist.

    #27622

    Ivy
    Participant

    Wouldn’t that be some shit if we found out Donald was one of his co-conspirators 😂….LOCK HIM UP!

    #27623

    Unseen
    Participant

    If anything, his death (suicide or not) will redouble the FBI’s efforts to dig deep and produce results. Added to that is the idea that Trump wants them to dig and discover that the Clintons are behind it. LOL

    #27624

    Ivy
    Participant

    Added to that is the idea that Trump wants them to dig and discover that the Clintons are behind it. LOL

    So THAT’S Why he is getting a Headstart on spreading these rumors about it being the fault of the Clintons… He’s trying to distract from the fact that he knows he’s going to be one of the co-conspirators. Can we say guilty conscience? You just watch. I bet you anything it’s true. And then he’ll say, “It’s all a hoax! Fake news!”….And his lawyers will schmooze it all over. You just watch. I bet you

    #27625

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Whatever justice is….

    That’s an interesting question.  I think there are two kinds of justice: restitutional (victim is made good in some way) and retributional (offender is punished in some proportionate way).  I can’t think of any other.

    #27626

    Ivy
    Participant

    That would make a good post don’t you think?

    “What is Justice?” It sure isn’t being delivered here in the US.

    #27627

    Ivy
    Participant

    There’s three sides to every story. Your side. Their side. And the truth. I think Justice is very individual.

    #27628

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I can’t think of any other.

    There’s also procedural justice (sticking to the rules of a fair and impartial procedure), distributional justice (deciding how to distribute goods or burdens), justice as fairness, and fairness as respect.

    I think Justice is very individual.

    I agree, the victim has to feel that justice has been done, and every situation is different.

    living in my head rent free

    I’m told that the Buddha said, anger is caused by looking at the thing that makes us angry.  I know it’s simplistic, but if something makes you angry, not looking at it is a good policy.

     

    #27629

    Ivy
    Participant

    I know it’s simplistic, but if something makes you angry, not looking at it is a good policy.

    Anger is rooted in either entitlement or bitterness. But it’s also useful because it’s an alarm bell that something isn’t right and needs to be dealt with

    #27630

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    it’s also useful because it’s an alarm bell that something isn’t right and needs to be dealt with

    That’s very true.  But sometimes people come up and decide to jam on your alarm bell for fun.

    That would make a good post don’t you think?

    Thanks for asking the question.  I’m certainly going to stick it on the end of my “fairness” page.

    #27631

    Davis
    Participant

    I don’t accept the excuse that prisoner abuse and police incompetence can be justified through a series of lame excuses. Yeah bad things happen because of bad management and bad policies. It also happens because of some rotten people and just about every good uniformed officer who cover up for and defend their colleagues who do horrendous things. This kind of shit happens only in certain states and cities. Meaning bad cops can’t get away with being bad cops in some countries. North American cops are dropping with entitlement and a shitty attitude (I suffered this myself I .Canada) and in the USA near impunity for even the most heinous abuses or even murders. I don’t see anything remotely like it in continental Europe. Nothing. And listening to cops in a safe state like WASHINGTON state laugh about just throwing some guy with mental problems in a jail cell cause it was too early in the morning to “deal with that shit…huh huh huh ..am I right? While his partner laughs with approval illustrates this well. It’s so easily to justify “difficult decisions” because you have a “difficult job”. Millions of people have stressful and difficult jobs. Some jobs require a bear super human level of patience and understanding as well as an ability to retain some respect for human dignity. And to call out your colleagues when they, they guys and gals with guns and batons…do super shitty indefensible things.

    #27632

    I have spoken with several victims of clerical sexual abuse over the years. All of them were glad of the chance to have their voices heard and to (finally) be believed. This was done in the face of much resistance and legal wrangling by the Catholic Church who failed to protect those children, often from those they knew to be pedophiles. In the early days of the revelations the victims had Christians calling them liars, money grabbers and engaged in much victim blaming. These same Christians now deny ever having acted like that. But all the while the victims endured their mockery, the blank eyed denials of the Catholic infested State institutions and the patent lack of concern by the failure of the Vatican to deal with the ongoing reality that their pedophile packs of liars for Jesus are still actively destroying the lives of children. But then dealing with reality is not exactly a trait of the Catholic Church which has abused its power for 2000 years. Despite all of this hatred and opposition hundreds of adults have had their day in court and found the process an important positive step in their lives.

    Maybe “Justice” operates differently where you live. But here crimes against minors are (in general) taken very seriously. Maybe that is because everyone here (in Ireland) knows at least one victim, thanks to the legacy of Christian holy men.  There are some not for profit organizations that do much to help. I know some barristers who act pro bono in these cases. It must be terrible to have to “rage against the machine” in order to get justice for crimes committed against children. But I think they all should have the right to be heard and to point out their abuser in public if they so wish.

    #27633

    Ivy
    Participant

    @davis
    RE:I don’t accept the excuse that prisoner abuse and police incompetence can be justified through a series of lame excuses.

    The “police” (I assume you mean the correctional officers?) are not the ones that called the shot to take him off of suicide watch. This type of thing could have happened on anybody’s watch and there is nothing anybody could do about it unless you happen to be standing right outside of his cell within the few minute window that he was going to hang himself. That is not “Police abuse.” That is just not being there at the right time to see what was happening.

    RE: It also happens because of some rotten people and just about every good uniformed officer who cover up for and defend their colleagues who do horrendous things.

    I agree with that. But you know what? I was in a situation like that. I was a brand new CO, and one of the men who was training us was a bad man. Very bad. He was a week away from retirement. I can read to you if I had spoken up, Nothing would’ve happened to him. I cannot say the same for me however.

    RE: This kind of shit happens only in certain states and cities.

    Which part? Overworked and mandatory overtime for law-enforcement? Ha ha Ha Hahahaha….No. That happens everywhere. Bad people in the police? That happens everywhere. Bad management? That happens everywhere. You can’t escape it
    RE: I don’t see anything remotely like it in continental Europe. Nothing.

    We’ve been over this before. It’s because we are stupid. And to be honest with you I’m just curious I have to ask… Have you ever been to prison in Europe?

    RE: And listening to cops in a safe state like WASHINGTON state laugh about just throwing some guy with mental problems in a jail cell cause it was too early in the morning to “deal with that shit…huh huh huh ..am I right? While his partner laughs with approval illustrates this well.

    That is exactly what I’m saying. It happens everywhere. But you just got done saying that it only happens in certain places? I’m not trying to justify anything I’m just telling you how it is.
    RE: It’s so easily to justify “difficult decisions” because you have a “difficult job”.

    Sigh. That’s not at all what I was trying to say. I was trying to explain to you that when it comes to prisoner suicide, That was not the CO’s on duty’s call to make to take someone off of suicide watch. Prisoners do shit behind the CO’s back when they’re not looking all the time!!!! But yet we want to blame the CO…..When the odds are that they are doing the best I can under the circumstances they are given. There are many excellent men and women in all branches of law-enforcement everywhere. It’s the few bad apples that gives the profession a bad name.
    RE: Millions of people have stressful and difficult jobs. Some jobs require a bear super human level of patience and understanding as well as an ability to retain some respect for human dignity.

    Yes but they don’t go to work and risk their lives every single day of the week. That does fuck with your head over time.

    #27634

    Ivy
    Participant

    @Reg

    Maybe “Justice” operates differently where you live. But here crimes against minors are (in general) taken very seriously.

    Yes, where I grew up crimes against minors Is not taken that seriously. My sister for example… Pregnant when she was 13 years old by a man who was several years older than her. The police did bring her in for questioning. But they didn’t do shit.

    I think it’s one thing in your local community to be finally believed and accepted for speaking your truth. I think it would be so much scarier being on the world stage in front of the whole world. I’ll be honest. If I am Magine how I would probably feel having to speak out against somebody like Jeffrey Epstein, the idea of going public in front of the world would scare the shit out of me. The members of your community didn’t have to face people trashing them on social media, and all of the things that comes along with going public in the era of me too…

    I’ll give you just one example. Do you remember Christine Blasey Ford? She told her story. She had her moment. I’m the most important key people who could have done something about it… Didn’t. They didn’t  give a shit! They still put the guy in office!!!! Even though we all know he was guilty as fuck. That’s how things are actually done in the good old United States. That’s not how they say they are done. That’s how they are actually done.

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