Are right and wrong and the related duties possible without absolutes
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This topic contains 161 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Davis 5 months, 4 weeks ago.
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November 23, 2021 at 9:09 pm #40011
Like Plato’s forms, they can just exist as metaphysical facts.
Surely you mean metaphysical concepts. A fact is something that by definition has some kind of existence.
Hey, Davis, check this out: Plato’s forms aren’t facts and don’t exist.
November 23, 2021 at 9:32 pm #40012Plato’s forms aren’t facts and don’t exist.
They exist as perfect ideals. Are perfect ideals facts? It is a fact that something can be a perfect ideal.
But can a perfect ideal itself be a fact? Does it have that status?
November 23, 2021 at 10:22 pm #40013Lets see. I would include philosophers, neuroscientists, social psychologists and perhaps artificial intelligence. I am saying it is a way to arrive at something reasonable. They wont have the cozy absolutist feelings of a mythical stone tablet with the ten commandments. But it is the best we can do. Just guidance.
You can’t escape the basic question: Why this group of “philosophers, neuroscientists, social psychologists and perhaps artificial intelligence” folk rather than some other set of folk bringing different beliefs and attitudes to the table? What criteria are you using, other than your own attitudes and opinions, when selecting this gaggle of specialists?
November 23, 2021 at 10:25 pm #40014Plato’s forms aren’t facts and don’t exist.
They exist as perfect ideals. Are perfect ideals facts? It is a fact that something can be a perfect ideal. But can a perfect ideal itself be a fact? Does it have that status?
I assure you that in Plato the forms enjoy far more facticity than things in the real world, which he analogizes to shadows on a wall.
November 23, 2021 at 10:32 pm #40015in Plato the forms enjoy far more facticity than things in the real world
Well, they don’t sound like the normal kind of facts. A special Plato kind of facts.
November 23, 2021 at 11:14 pm #40016Plato’s forms aren’t facts and don’t exist.
Sounds like someone skimmed the wikipedia article.
November 24, 2021 at 1:02 am #40017I just dropped my triangle and damaged it beyond repair. Just perfect!
November 24, 2021 at 3:41 am #40019Unseen, if it is my creation then i am going to exclude any founders who are ideologues, who are not amenable to persuasion when a better argument presents, and i am going to look for people who are interested in the welfare of the masses as opposed to particular classes of skinny or fat asses. Yes that reflects a preexisting value judgment. I want some balance of individual arete and aid for those who are in need. Quite naturally you won’t sit on my panel unless you are an exceptional thinker. I also want thinkers with a great knowledge of history and culture. Furthermore i am gonna require the experts to come to a consensus. In horse racing consensus selections usually outperform individual handicapper’s. I expect that to be the case in this endeavor also.
Cultural relativists can find another think tank.
November 24, 2021 at 8:33 am #40021Sounds like someone skimmed the wikipedia article.
Can you say in what way ideal forms are facts?
November 24, 2021 at 1:36 pm #40023I don’t take Plato’s forms seriously, so no…they are not facts as far as I am concerned and I see them of little (if any) philosophical use besides understanding the history of Western thought. However, for Plato…the forms were real, if not the ONLY real thing where even we humans were just imitations of forms. They were NOT some vague shadowy conceptual entity. Per the theory, forms are as close as you can get to facts because they are the only things that are real.
November 24, 2021 at 10:19 pm #40035little (if any) philosophical use
Moral principles are ideal forms or concepts. Each one consists of a particular ideal pattern of behaviour within various situations.
November 24, 2021 at 11:03 pm #40037Moral principles are ideal forms or concepts.
Sigh
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