Is something wrong with sports? Or is something wrong with transgenders?

Homepage Forums Small Talk Is something wrong with sports? Or is something wrong with transgenders?

This topic contains 36 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 5 months ago.

Viewing 7 posts - 31 through 37 (of 37 total)
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  • #38133

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I did not have much of an opinion on this topic until Davis swayed me just now..

    I suspect that anyone who obsesses over this issue and how it is unfair is concealing bigotry against trans. It makes me think of the incredible obsession with Israel. Morons who know virtually nothing about history or current geopolitics are suddenly experts on the 67 war, the camp david accords, the West Bank and on and on… And i just know they don’t give a rat’s ass for the Palestinians any more than they do for the Tutsis who were slaughtered and human rights issues all over the globe. But if the Jews are involved then well it is worse than apartheid and zionism is evil blah blah.

    Davis mentioned the cultural baggage of sports. Ever notice during the olympics we can’t fail to hear that it is THE GERMAN, THE RUSSIAN, THE AMERICAN…It is like the individual is secondary.

    Anyways if a trans person has a physical advantage by virtue of their birth then that is tough titty. Live with it!

    #38136

    Autumn
    Participant

    I would say it sports is probably more fair than other spheres of life which are a lot less closely observed, quantified and regulated. But they aren’t as remotely “fair” in so many senses as one might think.

    I might agree with the first bit of that statement if sports existed in a bit more of a vacuum—if the games were just games for the sake of games. But when you fully factor in the space they take up in society, circumstantially, I’d say the equation often flips upside down in practical terms.

    #38149

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    The biggest unfairness in sports that no one seems to talk about anymore is that, no matter what the gender, sex, sexual orientation, or politics of the athletes, sports team owners collude with politicians of cities and other jurisdictions to force taxpayers to pay for their arenas and venues, whether the taxpayers even like sports or not.

    Then the team owners threaten to take their teams elsewhere if they don’t get a re-up of a new taxpayer-financed arena every few years or so.

    They always make this phony argument that sports teams equal propserity for the areas that have taxpayer-financed arenas.  Yet as Robert Scheer pointed out in Playboy back in the Nineties, the main beneficiaries of taxpayer-financed arenas are the construction contractors and subcontractors who build the arenas, the concessioners in the stands, the advertisers posting ads in the stadium, and, of course, the team owners.

    Any added profits to hotels, motels, restaurants, retailers etc. in the area are offset by special taxes imposed on these businesses, as well as added expenses for law enforcement, roads, water, sewage, waste management, utility infrastructure, and other expenses that accompany the crowds attracted to the area by the sports arena.

    Damnit, sports team owner have wealth of their own!  Let them pool their butter-and-egg money and get their own arenas and pay for all accompanying expense if they really believe this is a boon for everyone!

    Also, the whole controversy over sports players kneeling at the National Anthem has brought out the inane and ridiculous in everyone.

    Not only is there the obvious absurdity of players with multi-million Dollar contracts claiming they are being oppressed by”The Man,” but it’s also brought out the Christian nut-burgers.  I see them all the time with ball caps, T-Shirts, bumper stickers, and other gee-jaws and gimcracks embossed with the saying: “I Stand For The Flag And I Kneel For The Cross!”

    I want to print up my own swag saying: “I Don’t Stand Or Kneel For Anything!  I Sit Down And Think, Then Get Up And Do!”

    Anyway, that my my $.02 off the top of my head.  More to come on the athletes later.

    #38163

    Unseen
    Participant

    I haven’t been present much lately due both to my siblings coming to visit at a time and my city of Portland, OR experiencing Phoenix-like temperatures in the low-to-mid 100F’s. My home doesn’t have a/c, which is fairly common in this city which generally is fairly temperate.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Unseen.
    #38164

    Unseen
    Participant

    Don’t mistake me for a gung-ho sports fanatic. I do follow Portland’s two soccer teams (male and female, with about equal interest) and not much else on any regular basis.

    I note that the controversy over transgenders comes up almost entirely in sports where people struggle as individuals to try to achieve personal records in their sport. The question doesn’t much seem to arise in team sports where season performance is what achieves championships.

    Has anyone addressed Germaine Greer’s contention that transgenders can’t be considered women? The opinion of a leading feminist intellectual surely must carry some weight.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Unseen.
    #38167

    Autumn
    Participant

    It’s raised as an issue in just about every sport including team sports—rugby in particular. Though the specific issue raised with rugby was safety rather than advantage. Ordinarily it doesn’t dominate headlines when the point of contention is team sports, perhaps because it’s not as useful as a wedge issue.

    Also, the numerous states in the US that are proposing athletics bans for transgender women and girls are applying those bans across the board for sports.

    What is there to address in Greer’s statements?

    As I’ve said before, the major discrepancy is about whether or not one recognizes gender identity as worthy of recognition in contexts that are not about gonads or gametes. She’s stated she doesn’t have much to say about what therapeutic treatments transgender people undergo. She’s stated she’d use the gendered language that corresponds with peoples gender identity.  Statements like misogyny being involved in Caitlyn Jenner being awarded woman of the year… if I cared to address that, I’d do it directly with Greer rather than try to torture out arguments from sound bites.

    When it comes to what may have changed in her experience as a woman and a feminist due to changing views and increased acceptance of transgender identities, I have fairly little to say. I haven’t lived her life. I am sure whatever she’s experienced is not unique to her. But when it comes to her statements on transgender people in general, she doesn’t seem to know all that much or even be all that interested. Years ago she made stronger statements. Over time, she seems to have pulled back. At times it seems like she’d rather just not discuss the issue anymore, though she rarely seems to shy away from a question when asked (not that she should).

    #38168

    Unseen
    Participant

    It’s raised as an issue in just about every sport including team sports—rugby in particular. Though the specific issue raised with rugby was safety rather than advantage. Ordinarily it doesn’t dominate headlines when the point of contention is team sports, perhaps because it’s not as useful as a wedge issue.

    Rugby is a sport I’m hardly aware of. Rugby scores don’t feature much in the evening sports roundup here. It’s pretty much a fringe sport here not normally featured in the sports roundup on the evening news report.

    I think we are suffering from a lack of reliable research on how transgenders perform in sports, because if allowing them to play upsets the apple cart, suddenly throwing natural players under the bus, clearly it can’t be allowed.

    The problem, of course, is how do we get good statistical evidence one way or the other? It may have to be from situations where transgenders are treated as if they are natural women, and I don’t know how long it will take to reach statistical validity there.

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