Jordan Peterson definition of God

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This topic contains 136 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Ivy 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #27009

    Ivy
    Participant

    @Glen D

    There’s way more evidence that God does exist than evidence that he doesn’t.

    And that is my subjective opinion.

    I’m guessing your subjective opinion is that there is way more evidence that he does not exist than that he does…

    Either way it’s subjective opinions…

    Who is right?…TBD….

    #27013

    Glen D
    Participant

    @ivy

    “There’s way more evidence that God does exist than evidence that he doesn’t.’

    Absolutely!

    The bible is evidence, as is 2000 years of written testimony, personal accounts, tradition and even historical evidence (written after the fact)

    What there is not is proof. There is no objective proof for the existence  of God. If there were, there would be no argument.

    Evidence is anything whatsoever  produced in support of an argument. It is not synonym for proof.

    I  became an atheist over a slow process which took 20 years. I reached my present position when I realised there is no proof for the existence of God.  There is no argument as far as I can see.  I realised long ago that that the existence of god is an unfalsifiable claim. IE it  cannot be proved or disproved. But that is not my problem.  The burden of proof belongs to the person making the claim. I make no claims, I simply assert a position, which  is a lack of belief.

    I also realised a long time ago that religious belief is about faith rather than  facts or reason  Martin Luther went so far as to say reason is the enemy of faith

    My position remains: ” You believe in god? How nice for you . You would like me to share your beliefs? Absolutely ready to do that!—the instant you prove to me that God exists. Can’t do it? Then please stop wasting my time.

    PS If  by ‘evidence’ you actually mean ‘proof” I’d be thrilled  to see it. You’ll be world famous, the first  person to prove the existence of god

     

    (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((0)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”

    ― Martin Luther

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Glen D.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Glen D.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Glen D.
    #27017

    Ivy
    Participant

    Yawn

    And around and around we go….

    #27018

    Glen D
    Participant

    @ivy

    “Yawn

    And around and around we go….”

    That’s most unhelpful, and a little patronising..

    I would really like to learn of the evidence of which you speak.

    I need always to learn. An important part of being a skeptic for me is to always question, especially my own strongly held positions.

    I’ve learnt that the more sure I am of being right the greater the chance that I’m wrong.

    I don’t consider my position subjective, rather it is objective, built on empiricism. I reject the position of the solipsists who claim there is no objective reality.  If I cannot  see objective reality does not mean it does not exist.

    So please be patient with me, and explain, what you mean. Or not. I’m perfectly happy to agree to differ

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Glen D.
    #27020

    Davis
    Participant

    There’s way more evidence that God does exist than evidence that he doesn’t.

    Ivy I find this claim of yours super fascinating. Could you answer three questions?

    1. Could you give an example of evidence that God exists (reliable evidence, not mere claims).

    2. Could you give an example of evidence that God doesn’t exist (this is a particularly curious statement).

    3. If determining what is evidence for or against a claim as well as using and analyzing that evidence is “subjective” then what would you consider “objective”?

    #27021

    Ivy
    Participant

    @Glen D

    I don’t consider my position subjective, rather it is objective, built on empiricism

    Could you provide your objective empirical evidence for me to read?

    #27022

    Ivy
    Participant

    @davis There is no such thing as objective evidence for OR against the existence of God. It is all subjective.

    #27023

    Glen D
    Participant

    @ivy

    Apologies, I didn’t mean to mislead. What I mean is my position is based on the LACK of objective proof.

    I suspect we may actually agree. I accept that because of the apparent impossibility of objective proof, all that is left is subjective experience . That of course IS evidence, but not proof.  OK?

     

    #27030

    Davis
    Participant

    Okay Ivy. Thanks for answering question number 3.  I was hoping you’d address the “at least more objective” part but we can get back to that later.

    Questions 1 and 2 are far more interesting. Could you answer those please?

    #27032

    Ivy
    Participant

    There really isn’t any evidence either way for either of these. Like I said….any “argument” you can conjure up for or against God’s existence is ALL subjective opinion. It really just depends how you perceive certain aspects of reality. That’s why getting into these debates is somewhat pointless. Trying to convince anyone they are wrong is akin to trying to convince a die hard Trump supporter that he is a racist psychopath…

     

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Ivy.
    #27033

    Ivy
    Participant
    #27037

    Davis
    Participant

    Indeed it has been pointless. Because if I knew you were a radical postmodernist I wouldn’t have bothered answering your challenge to my argument (which was quite a rich thing to do considering everything is simply based on perspective). The inconsistencies and unresolved conflicts within post modernis. and the accompanying fear of knowledge is always baffling. Im curious what could lead you to becoming an atheist then.

    In any case I’m totally confused by your claim that there is far more evidence that God exists than doesn’t. You nownsay thattthere is no evidence. And since claims are only limited by human speech and imagination isn’t there no limit to both evidence for and against God? So how could there be more evidence either way? I can only guess you didn’t mean that or you can say conflicting things with confidence. And ultimately why would you challenge a claim about right or wrong about abstract ideas if it all comes down to your point of view?

    #27038

    Ivy
    Participant

    @davis

    oh so now you’re labeling me? What the fuck is a radical postmodernists anyway? You don’t even know me and now you’re trying to put me in a nice little box and pretend like you got me figured out. I don’t even understand what your question is. I can give you countless examples of arguments that have been made by people for the existence of God, and against the existence of God… But like I said….At the end of the day you’re going to come away with the same opinion you’ve already had. That’s just the way it goes.

    #27039

    Ivy
    Participant

    And I don’t know where you got the idea that I’m an atheist. I’m not. And I find a lot of the arguments that are made against the existence of God pretty tiresome. And that’s why I’m not even really answering your questions because we would just go around in circles for days. That’s all it ever ends up being as one big circle. That’s why I’m giving you a really vague answer LOL! You’re already firmly held to your position and so am I. That’s why am saying… Us trying to convince each other of anything either way would be a big fucking waste of time

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Ivy.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Ivy.
    #27050

    Glen D
    Participant

    “And I don’t know where you got the idea that I’m an atheist.”

    Oh, I’m terribly sorry. What with being an atheist forum and all , I simply assumed.My bad.

    “And I find a lot of the arguments that are made against the existence of God pretty tiresome.”

    That’s fine. You have every right to feel so. Unfortunately,  that statement falls under the general heading of an ad hominem attack and is not reasoned response to an argument .

    I seldom bother trying to argue with an apologist, as they tend to be impervious to fact or reason. Just as you have shown yourself to be.

    I have nothing further to say to you on this or any other theist related  topic

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Glen D.
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