Moral Choice 2

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This topic contains 32 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  David Boots 7 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 33 total)
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  • #3843

    Matt
    Participant

    I wonder if people’s attitudes would be the same if the woman was in the man’s position? i.e. It’s the womans egg being grown in a surrogate (or artificial womb, whatever). If her signature was forged by the man on the final  consent form, should she “be forced to uphold her parental responsibilities?”, as Belle put it?

    Also, Strega, the man DIDN’T give consent at the point of conception… he refused consent at the final stage… that’s the whole point of the discussion.

    #3844

    .
    Spectator

    @matt that’s just a ridiculous scenario that would never happen anyway. And really – there are very few women who would back out of being a mother to their own child compared to the MANY men who shirk their responsibility as a father. So it’s really not an apples to apples comparison.

    #3845

    David Boots
    Participant

    Just to clarify the scenario. The man signs the paperwork and provides his semen. Before the semen is introduced to the egg consent is again required. He refuses to consent.

    The rape scenario is raised for the following point. Most people would agree that a woman who is raped and conceives, should be allowed to have an abortion.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by  David Boots.
    #3848

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I’d say if he has a problem with it, he can absolutely go fuck himself.  His wife has created a new life with him: his hurty feelings don’t compare in importance to their child’s welfare and well being.  If he feels he wants a divorce, go right ahead.

    https://atheistzone.com/wp-content/uploads/hm_bbpui/3848/1qjbuoqhzzic1scj856u8l2c0qnyti4k.gif

    #3849

    David Boots
    Participant

    I think most people would think there are bigger issues than hurt feelings.

    Think about this aspect… didn’t the man – given that he recognised the relationship was deteriorating – make the responsible choice to decide not to have a second child? Was it not – in that context – irresponsible and selfish of the mother to do what she did?

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by  David Boots.
    #3851

    .
    Spectator

    Women choose when and how to get pregnant most of the time except for cases of rape. This case just happens to involve a nudge from technology to make it happen. But really it’s no different than the couple who is fighting and she intentionally stops taking birth control without him knowing and gets pregnant.

    I wouldn’t classify it as irresponsible and selfish if she is willing to accept and take responsibility in full for the aftermath of the situation (i.e. Raising the child). I would say that if he is a descent man he would step up and do the right thing to help her with both children. But if he’s going to be an ass about it then….good riddance. There’s nothing selfish about wanting your child to have a sibling from the same father. From my point of  view it’s more about whether you can provide for them.

    Now that you clarified that he did consent and he signed the papers (she didn’t forge anything) then it’s just a classic scenario of a woman who wants to have a second child from the same man whether he’s going to stick around or not. I don’t see a big deal – again- as long as she is willing to raise the child solo. Anything the father contributes would be nice….and the right thing to do. But that’s on him.

    #3852

    David Boots
    Participant

    To be clear – in this scenario – she does in fact forge paperwork and she does so after knowing her partner refuses to go ahead with the process.

    Would it change your opinion if you now know that the woman used another woman’s egg and thus has no genetic contribution to the child?

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by  David Boots.
    #3854

    .
    Spectator

    You’re confusing me David. I thought you just said he DID sign the paperwork…

    #3855

    .
    Spectator

    You keep changing the scenario! Yes those things make a difference.

    #3856

    David Boots
    Participant

    Sorry for the confusion Belle.

    #3857

    Here are some links to sites with stories which may be of interest.

    http://donoroffspring.eu/

    https://anonymousus.org/

    http://adoptionrightsalliance.com/

    #3858

    .
    Spectator

    If she forged the paperwork then -yah. She’s guilty of a crime

    #3859

    Strega
    Moderator

    David this topic appears to have moved away from a generic ‘moral question’ and is now becoming detailed to a level that conflicts with philosophical debate.  Are we now discussing an actual situation?  Yours?

    What do you think should happen?  Should the baby grow up knowing its father rejected it?  What is YOUR perspective on how this should pan out?

    #3861

    .
    Spectator

    No need to apologize, just defend your position and clearly state the situation. On this forum we take no prisoners (and that applies to all of us)….so don’t hold back!

    #3863

    David Boots
    Participant

    Strega not about me… but it is a useful example for discussing morality. It is a matter shortly to be looked at by the courts; crim and civil. Stay tuned for what they say – give it 2 years or so. This may go to the high court. My opinion is this:

    – the unauthorised use of DNA concerns me – but it is hard to articulate why. It seems to me more of a breach of some sort of right that has yet to be formulated.

    – it also seems to me opportunistic in the light of the special role an IVF clinic plays in society. And in this respect it troubles me that the woman would make such a conscious choice knowing the very many years of trouble it has caused and will cause all involved: including the clinic and the child. She clearly put her desire before any consideration of the child or her partner. It is a cliche but we have enough unwanted children born as it is and no honest explanation to the child in future will do them a favour.

     

     

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