Moral Choice 2

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This topic contains 32 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  David Boots 2 years ago.

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  • #3311

    David Boots
    Participant

    Real life moral dilemmas (2).

    An ordinary hetero married couple cant conceive. They use a donated egg and the husbands sperm to conceive. A healthy baby is born. Two years later they decide to have another child.

    They start the long and expensive process again. The process requires the consent of both parties at various stages. They both sign the relevant forms to begin.

    Some time later the relationship deteriorates – although not to the point that they break up – and the man refuses to sign the final consent form. The wife forges his signature without his knowledge and goes ahead with the procedure. She becomes pregnant and later has their second child.

    The wife has possibly committed a criminal act. Should the police prosecute her? Who should be responsible for the cost of raising the second child?

    • This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by  David Boots.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by  David Boots.
    #3332

    Strega
    Moderator

    Most of the time, laws are made to deal with realistic possibilities.  Your problem is so unlikely to be a frequent one, the judges would have to apply whatever law was closest to what they wanted.  This means in different states, you’d have different charges for the same act, depending on what law was available to apply.

    Since the USA is so enamoured of women having babies, I suspect the law would try to find that the man lost his veto power when he handed over the sperm for procreation purposes.

    He would then be made responsible for half the costs of raising the child.  At this point, he would have a ‘grievance’ and could sue her for forgery to reclaim the cost of the child support which resulted directly from her act.

    #3384

    Andrew Brown
    Participant

    Agree with Strega. I am not a lawyer and know there are far too many laws for me to know the answer.

    Regardless of the law, from my personal POV I say the mother committed the crime of forgery on an official document and should be handled through the civil court, not criminal court.

    #3407

    David Boots
    Participant

    Putting aside the legal aspect – which is quite fascinating really – was she right to do what she did? Is there something to be said for both children having the same parents?

    #3410

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I would say it’s the clinic’s fault for not requiring a notary.  The father should have the right to avoid the child support if the couple divorces, if he wishes.

    #3412

    David Boots
    Participant

    I would say it’s the clinic’s fault for not requiring a notary. The father should have the right to avoid the child support if the couple divorces, if he wishes.

    Are you saying that payment of support should be linked to his access?

    #3477

    notimportant
    Participant

    I think the law in most states is that a child born to a couple while they are married is the joint responsibility of the parents, no matter if one of them wanted it or if it was an accident or if there was deception involved.  The forgery is a separable offense, and might be sued on, but child support is not contingent on the result.

    #3825

    David Boots
    Participant

    Update: the mother asks the registry of births to put the husband down on the birth certificate. Should they do it?

    #3830

    Strega
    Moderator

    Yes. It’s hard enough for an unloved baby to progress in this world. The father IS the genetic father.

    #3832

    David Boots
    Participant

    What if the implication of being registered as the father is the inescapable obligation to pay for the upbringing of the child?

    #3834

    Strega
    Moderator

    There’s an inescapable obligation already in place.  The admission of paternity is already made. Putting the fathers name on the certificate benefits the child.  Refusing to do so merely renders the father obstructive.  He’s the father.  He’s not denying paternity; he can’t under the circumstances you painted. Recording the fact on the birth certificate cannot add an obligation that isn’t already present.

    #3837

    David Boots
    Participant

    Hmmm…. doesn’t this raise the concept of positive consent? Modern consent law says silence is not consent and it also says consent must be informed and you must be capable of consent (so not drunk / disabled etc.) Consent is also an ongoing agreement. That is consent can be withdrawn.

    For example two people start consensual sex. One wants to stop. The other continues. This is considered (well is actually) rape. Hasn’t, by way of analogy this man been raped? And if he has been raped – should he have to support this child the rest of his life?

     

     

     

     

    #3839

    .
    Spectator

    I think that the wife is guilty of forgery and falsifying documents and fraud.

    Should he be forced to uphold his parental responsibilities? Yes. But if he’s being an asshole about it then fuck him. The baby doesn’t need a man like that in its life. His loss. You can’t make a person behave like a descent human being. And if he’s being an asshole about it then he can fuck off.

    #3840

    Strega
    Moderator

    David, regarding rape, the man gave consent at the point of conception.

    I also rather like Belle’s perspective!

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Strega. Reason: adding comment re belle
    #3842

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Hasn’t, by way of analogy this man been raped? And if he has been raped – should he have to support this child the rest of his life?

    I think you’re stretching that analogy. Even if the mother’s act can be considered as serious as “rape”, it begs a different legal name.

    Could we say that the child has no rights after the mother gives birth, because of the mother’s forgery? I don’t think so.

    I know, I’m not helping us come to a reasonable conclusion! I’m just avoiding some potholes, thus far.

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