Police can do no wrong

[Davis]

This video shows no blood but it is still extremely disturbing for some viewers:

 

Why is it that police in some districts can do no wrong?

It is entirely reasonable to kill an inebriated yet compliant man being screamed at with confusing orders and forced to perform leg crossing yoga on the floor and then crawl towards the barrel of a gun. The way the policeman was trained is apparently not in question. The training was sound and he did the right thing. Aggravating and escalating a situation through multiple baffling aggressively hostile screeching orders makes sense. Probably any one of us would behave in the same way that man did…confused…terrified of being shot…not knowing what to do yet having to do something now with the threat of being shot barfed out every 5 seconds. In other police districts and most counries the policeman would be jailed, the forces training and policies would be reviewed and changed and people would expect nothing less. Something would be learnt by it and everyone would see it as a calamity that shouldn’t happen again. In other districts….police can do no wrong and questionable policies that frequently result in violent death need not be questioned. Why? It cannot be because Americans support it. Read the comment sections, even in right wing news media…and the overwhelming consensus is horror. Why?

• This topic was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by Davis.

[JadeBlackOlive]

It seems this is typical US law enFORCEment. Nothing will change for the better because they keep the same damn behaviours, no matter what.

[.]

We don’t know the circumstances of the case though….unless I missed that somewhere….

The man reached to his back pocket and could have had a gun.

The police had to give the orders the way they did to ensure there was complete clarity.

i would really like to know the circumstances of the case. Without that I can’t make a correct judgement.

I used to be in law enforcement so I know how it is…

Especialkt these days…with suicide bombers and people wanting to kill the police honestly there are many police who have too much PTSD and should not be on duty.

But long hours too much overtime not enough back up…etc etc..

Amd not enough media and recognition for stuff like this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/12/01/health/police-officer-adopts-homeless-opioid-newborn-btc-beyond-the-call-of-duty/index.html

[jakelafort]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Daniel_Shaver

 

[.]

Okay…I’m curious to know what evidence presented made him found not guilty….

 

[Davis]

Belle this was murder. A colossal fuck up from the beginning. So many pointless mistakes. Only in some US states can screaming confusing orders and roaring threats to kill be acceptable police tactics. I grew up in a family and friends of first responders and they are utterly aghast when they watch the videos of some US captain warrior , corporal elevate and sergeant aggrivate. The bodycam was not allowed by the judge in trial. Arizona marshalls watched the footage and could not comprehend why he wasntbcuffed while on the ground. A cop simply cannot be prosecuted in some states. In Canada and Belgium and Spain (the last two where terrorism threats and bombings is a monthly reality) he would be in jail and cops wouldn’t stand by him (for reference…a cop was jailed recently for much much less stupidity and it was widely viewed as murder.) What makes it complicated is that the stupidity was spread between two stupid cops.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by Davis.

[David Boots]

Simply pathetic and disgusting. The US is a scary country when your not safe from the people who are meant to protect you.

I blame the tv shop ‘Cops’ which normalises the most bizarre ‘comply or die’ cowboy policing. Somewhere along the way the police became judge jury and executioners with an almost pathological need to escalate confrontations.

 

[.]

I’m not saying he was innocent. I’m just wondering why he was using such force to begin with. I didn’t know if he could have had explosives or something. He shouldn’t have had a badge.

I have seen similar things working in a jail. I saw an inmate get molested right in front of me dressed up like a body search and there was nothing I could do about it.

[jakelafort]

According to the Washington Post the video was shown during trial.  Police were responding to a report that the guy had pointed a rifle out of the 5th floor of a hotel.  In fact he had a pellet gun and was showing it off to a woman he had met earlier that day. The two were drinking shots of rum.

I see a cop who seems hopped up on something,   Is acting like a drill sargent in barking out orders in rapid succession in the most intimidating way.  (if he were playing simon says he would have the players dropping out like flies)  The man and the woman are frightened and under the circumstances are likely to be incapable of following the orders without being strictly compliant.

The cop unless he is a moron is aware that the suspects will be confused and fail to strictly comply. His admonition of what is going to happen if there is a failure to do so is unavailing.  And based on the rapid fire murder of the guy he needed to see more to justify the shootings. MUCH MORE. It is murder and he beat the wrap.

[.]

I think the police officer was likely an ex vet with PTSD who has no business in law enforcement. It happens a lot….too many soldiers come home try to be a cop and they haven’t adjusted to “civie” society.

[Judith van der Roos]

Observation from the Netherlands.

1. The USA has a fetish for “law enforcement”, constantly bolstered by endless cops shows and movies.

2. America has an authoritarian stick shoved deeply, and ever so perminently deep into its national bowels. I imagine its a product of the religeous extremism that took Puritans to the colonies in the first place.

3. America has created “super citizens”. These are people for whom the law, in practice, does not apply and /or does not apply equally – you call them Cops.

4. America has been raised on fear. Fear of the native Americam, the Chinaman, the Irishman, the Italian, the slave, the black man, the socialist, the communist, the atheist, the mo-slim, oh goodness the list goes on and on. In this environment it is easy to be afraid of crime even in the face of facts that show the real risks. It is also easy to elevate the cop, “the protector” of all that is good and christian into the status of near diety, who while they might make a mistake (or simply be a murdering arse-hat) to that of Guardian Angel. The american love of the super-hero who fights “Evil” in the name of “Good” could be a product of the state of fear. Every threat is then easily labelled “Evil” and must be delat with by the “FORCE of good” – its so utterly simplistic one has to wonder if an entire nation went through remedial class while at school !

5. The of course there is the national love affair with guns…………….. Being a cop in the USA gives one pretty much a freedom to enjoy their use. How many bullets get fired into suspects there per cop killing, I saw somewhere a figure of an average of two dozen shots fired per killing (shots fired by cops, not those that strike their victim) by cop nationally – holy shit guys in my nation of 17 million cops fired less than a dozen rounds last year and most of those were warning shots into the air (and each discharge of a weapon investigated by the national independant ombudsman) !

 

[jakelafort]

Observations or speculation?

More like a deep division as to law enforcement.  From childhood Blacks learn  how to avoid victimization and tend to be highly suspicious of cops.  Many Americans are similarly inclined and understand that the notion of majesty of law is a chimera.

No such stick permeates the anus of all Americans.  Trump supporters no doubt tend to be authoritarian-types.  Puritan example is inapropos.  Puritans were not well-received and malcontents in Britain.  Became authoritarian in an insular way in 17th and 18th century in America.  But authoritarianism is associated with the state.  Beyond that the influence of Puritans is too attenuated to make any real assessment especially as they represent such a tiny part of the colonization of America.

There is also a strong anti-authoritarian bent in USA .  Americans learned from the experience of victims of authoritarianism in Europe and Russia.  We have constitutional guarantees that are cherished by Americans and fly in the face of  the authoritarian stick (if such sticks can be imagined to have faces)  There is freedom of assembly,  of press and of speech.  We also have media not controlled by state in which the cops are exposed  when knowledge of their wrongdoings is known.

Further, there is an anti-authoritarian zeitgeist of the 60s when civil rights were fought and the police were the enforcers of status quo authority.  There is disillusionment after the realization by many Americans that the Vietnam war was a mistake and that the government lied.  There were protests, hippies, and free love-antiauthoritan sticks, all…

I am not going to continue to review this.  Truth falls anywhere. It is not aesthetic unlike the mindless cant of the far right or far left.

[Strega]

For those who do not live in the USA, let me point out that the differences between states here and the difference between, say, countries in Europe, are pretty profound.  When a statement is made about domestic activity in ‘America’ it is made about a collection of states with incredibly different attitudes, philosophy and behaviours.

I do not recognize Vermont in any of the broad assumptions thus far posted.

[Davis]

A couple years ago a Toronto policeman shot a young man on a street car. He had mental problems, was holding a knife. Everyone fled the street car and multiple police surrounded the exit barking out clear orders. Holding only a knife, he started to vaguely move forward (several meters away from any policeman). A toronto police shot him multiple times, then tasered him twice. He was charged with murder. There was overwhelming support for this by citizens and the police.

That doesn’t mean police are loved. When I lived in Canada I had unpleasant experiences with the police. On multiple occasions I was minding my own business and police harassed me and my friends, questioned us, badgered us…for no reason. They visited my home twice and pulled me over twice and every time I felt like I was in the presence of a morally superior ethical God, often lectured by them, obliged into meek submission and multiple appologies with the likely threat of the situation elevating. We were just sitting around in the park without alcohol. Or I slowed down while driving and then sped up back to the limit. Was showing a friend my old house in the evening. A false noise complaint by a neighbour. Even me asking a policeman the time while downtown. Every time ended up with interrogating questions, often I had to open my backpack to show what was inside. I felt like a criminal, walked around them to avoid them on their patrolls, felt guilty when a police car drove by (am I doing something wrong?) and I’m white. My black and arab friends have MUCH MUCH worse stories. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have a good friend or family member in the police…who have any love for them. My Canadian friends dispise them.

In the UK and to much higher extent in Belgium, Spain…they are happy to help you with most questions. They’ll even walk you a block or two if you need directions. They’ll  look up addresses on their phone. Even recommend where to go. I feel very safe when they are around. I don’t ask myself “am I doing something wrong”? The biggest trouble making I ever saw them do was ask a group of people playing loud music  in a square….to lower the volume half way. In Belgium a policeman ran after me (50 meters) after he saw me riding my bike without my hands. He told me a story about his friend losing his teeth and begged me to be more careful…he didn’t want me to lose my teeth either. Oh…and he didn’t ask me my name and ID, where I was going, why I was riding my bike that way, what was in my backpack. He just didn’t want me to lose my teeth. I was stopped twice for having bottles of beer in public in Spain (its a big no no these days). Every time they told me “if you walk around with beer, zheesh…keep it under your jacket where no one can see it and take quick sips” or something, joked around with me and my friends and told me to have a fun night.

I’ve heard different stories about the police from some American friends. Some tell me they are much much worse than the kind of police I encountered in Ontario…others told me stories similar to the ones I have had in Europe. Very mixed stories.

[_Robert_]

Good point Strega. Would anyone insinuate that ALL Dutch people were up to their armpits in the slave trade for centuries, African colonialism and the extremely racist policy of apartheid, Nazi collaboration and the bloody diamond business? Of course not. I do wonder about their history lessons however.

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