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This topic contains 79 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 3 weeks, 5 days ago.

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  • #52993

    Unseen
    Participant

    I have no problems with Jews as an ethnicity and you should think twice before mixing up being anti-Israeli policy and being hateful of Jews. I’ve had many Jewish friends over the years, I love bagels and corned beef on rye, I don’t deny the Holocaust, and had I been around and an adult at the time Israel was formed, I probably would have been all for it. It’s with 20/20 hindsight that it seems to have been a catastrophic mistake.

    I don’t deny that Israel suffered a terrible toll in the Hamas attack:

    An estimated 50 minors were killed in the Oct. 7 attack, the Times of Israel reported in December. Of those 50, two were reportedly infants, 12 were children under 10 years old and 38 were between the ages of 10 and 19.

    Their response:

    Since the attack, Israeli forces have launched a massive military offensive on Gaza, displacing most of the territory’s 2.3 million Palestinians, blocking humanitarian aid and killing an estimated 31,000 people, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.

    I suppose you see that as a “proportional” response because Netanyahu and his government apparently does. You do realize what’s really going on, don’t you? Netanyahu is, like Trump, trying to forestall the inevitable. He’s unpopular and keeping the war going to keep himself out of prison.

    To my alleged antisemitism you can add that of Human Rights Watch, The Wall Street Journal, and many others. I’m not antisemitic. You are willfully blind and, through inaction, supporting an ongoing genocide being carried out both militarily and by stopping or frustrating attempts to bring food, drinking water, and medicine to ordinary Palestinians.

     

     

    #52999

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    No one yet fully knows the number of deaths in the ongoing Israel-Hamas War, just as no one yet fully knows the deaths in the ongoing Russo-Ukrainian War. This is the nature of what’s called “the fog of war.”

    But I do know this: Not one person would be dead if Hamas had not initiated it’s terrorist pogrom against Israeli civilians including children, including even Arab Israelis.

    I know that’s “Monday Morning Quarterbacking”, but at least Monday Morning Quarterbacks learn from history and their world, as well as keep their rough-stuff in stadiums and solely with consenting adults of similar strength.

    #53001

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I said i would not respond to the substance of Unseen’s garbage. Enco responded so this is a back handed response and without much thought.

    The kids who died in Gaza is i doubt even 5 percent of the kids who have died in conflicts elsewhere in that time span. Not only is anything coming from Hamas or the UN lacking in credibility but Hamas has situated the Israeli response to their attack so that Palestinians die so its misleading to ascribe all of the deaths to Israel. And obviously the numbers are exaggerated for the sake of the propaganda that Hamas seeks.

    The world is absolutely ablaze with conflict/war and some ACTUAL GENOCIDE too. Ten seconds of research yields the following. This is, in numbers, the most affected region: more than 45 armed conflicts are currently taking place throughout the Middle East and North Africa in the following territories: Cyprus, Egypt, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Morocco, Palestine, Syria, Turkey, Yemen and Western Sahara.

    Africa comes second in the number of armed conflicts per region with more than 35 non-international armed conflicts (NIACs) taking place in Burkina Faso, Cameroon, the Central African Republic (CAR), the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Mali, Mozambique, Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia, South Sudan and Sudan. Several armed groups – fighting against government forces and/or against each other’s – are involved in these conflicts.

    #53005

    Unseen
    Participant

    But I do know this: Not one person would be dead if Hamas had not initiated it’s terrorist pogrom against Israeli civilians including children, including even Arab Israelis.

    “But, Mommy, Billy hit me so I had to stab him in the neck.”

    #53006

    Unseen
    Participant

    @ Jake

    I know you won’t answer this “garbage” directly, but maybe Enco will say something to allow you a back door response.

    You do realize that denying the delivery of food, drinking water, and medical supplies is a war crime all on it’s own, I’m sure. You just care so little about Palestinian lives that it’s not worth thinking about much less decrying.

    And that’s not including the practice of telling refugees to go to a certain area and then bombing it.

    But it all started prior to the recent Hamas attack with a lengthy list of human rights abuses and crimes against the citizens of Gaza.

    Until then, in your mind, anyone who sees the Israeli maltreatment of Palestinians and doesn’t join you in looking the other way must be a Jew-hater.

    #53007

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Basic fact of human physiological science and one of the Rule of Threes for Survivalist/Preppers:

    A human body dies within three days without potable water.

    If Israel intended to commit genocide against the Arabs of Gaza, on October 8, 2023, the day after the pogrom on October 7, the Israelis would have cut off all water supplies from Israel and knocked out all means for desalinization of sea water from the Mediterranean Sea, and all of Gaza would be dead from kidney failure and thirst by October 11.

    Another fact of human physiological science and another of the Survivalist/Prepper Rule of Threes:

    A human body turns on itself, eats itself, and dies if it doesn’t get potable, pathogen-free food within 30 days.

    If Israel wanted to commit genocide against the Arabs of Gaza, why would they even bother allowing food aid convoys into Gaza, let alone have members of the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) guarding the food aid convoys from swarming mobs and Hamas and other terrorists plundering the food aid for sale on the black market?

    And if the Israelis are so genocidal and Hamas is so concerned with the Arabs of Gaza, why would Hamas pay terrorists $10,000 to take Israeli hostages?

    $10,000 could buy fantastic amounts of food for Gazans, but Hamas hates Jews more than it loves the Arabs it claims to support.

    And after the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza, half of Gaza’s food generating greenhouses were dismantled and removed by withdrawing Israeli settlers and the other half were looted and destroyed by Gazans. If Israel were genocidal to Arabs in Gaza, why would they even have greenhouses there? And if Hamas cared about Arabs in Gaza, why would they be complicit in removal and destruction of greenhouses?

    Israeli Disengagement from Gaza–wikipedia
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

    For all the talk about health Misinformation/Disinformation/Malinformation (MDM *Growl!* 🦁), the accusations of genocide leveled against Israel is real health MDM, on top of just brazen hate propaganda against Israel and, all too often, Jews as a whole worldwide.

    Well, as someone who actually practices Disaster Preparedness and has since Hurricane Hugo in 1989, none of this fools me.

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Changing a preposition
    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling
    #53011

    Unseen
    Participant

    @ Enco

    You only admit that a war on a people is genocide if it’s pulled off apace. You don’t seem to admit that a genocide can be done slowly, perhaps so as to draw less attention and to allow people like you and Jake to help it go on by providing an apology for it.

    If you make water and food very scarce, you are creating an artificial famine. If it’s applied to a concentrated and isolated group—and the Gaza Palestinians are exquisitely concentrated and isolated—it’s a slow-motion genocidal famine.

    #53015

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Gaza is so isolated that thousands of rockets and other weapons from Iran find their way into Gaza tunnels. LOL. I see Egypt is done with their “little Iranian” neighbors in Gaza and is quietly building a big Trump-style wall. Saudi has been fighting against their Iranian backed Houthi neighbors for years as well.

    Yeah, Iranian Shia Mullahs are happy with the liberal stooges condemning Israel for finally trying to defeat the Iranian proxy cults of death who are always trying to annihilate them. All the while Iran oppresses their own citizens, especially women and LGBT who are constantly in revolt for basic human rights. Iran also causing shit in Lebanon and the West Bank. Just pumping oil money to Jihadists all over the region. Iran is supporting that murderous double-ass-wipe Putin too. They will get nuclear favors, no doubt.

    Iran is paying Palestinian leaders to fight Israel and murder Jews, using their religion as justification. NONE of these countries, Shia or Sunni have any respect for liberal values.

    #53194

    Unseen
    Participant
    #53229

    Unseen
    Participant

    No food. No water. No hospital. Aid workers targeted. And…it’s not ethnic cleansing or genocide.

    Netanyahu is basically similar to Trump. Using whatever is in his power to keep from being removed and prosecuted.

    #53236

    _Robert_
    Participant

    This is all self-imposed suffering. Mohammad, peace be upon HIM; approves. What do you expect warfare to be like when every child is a potential walking bomb? Every civilian car or work truck could be an IED? And every hospital has a basement full of terrorists, hoping to die to get at their virgin goats. Any chance for positive human dealings is gone. This is a great example of how people suffer in this world when they live only for the next.

    Every aid worker is also at risk. Jihadists don’t care about human life. It is amazing how millions of Palestinian people can’t get rid of a few hundred or so Jihadists even if their very lives depend on it. Still holding hostages.

    Israel really sucks at genocide. The Palestinians are about the fastest growing population in the world.  If they simply release the hostages and turn over their murdering Jihadists, they will get all the food and shelter they need. No. They will see it through to the bitter end, as usual. Ahh yes, the religion of peace

    Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)
    Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
    Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
    Al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)
    Al-Murabitoun
    Al-Muwaqi’un Bil Dima
    Al Qaida
    Al Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
    Al Qaida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)
    Al Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
    Al Shabaab
    Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade (AAMB)
    Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (AGAI)
    Ansar al-Islam (AI)
    Ansar Dine
    Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
    Aryan Strikeforce
    Asbat Al-Ansar (AAA) (The League of Partisans)
    Aum Shinrikyo
    Babbar Khalsa International (BKI)
    Boko Haram
    Caucasus Emirate
    Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s Faction of the Hezb-e Islami, Hezb-e Islami Gulbuddin (HIG)
    Hamas (Harakat Al-Muqawama Al-Islamiya) (Islamic Resistance Movement)
    Haqqani Network
    Harakat al-Sabireen (HaS)
    Harakat ul-Mudjahidin (HuM)
    HASAM (Harakat Sawa’d Misr)
    Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham
    Hizballah
    Hizbul Mujahideen
    Indian Mujahideen (IM)
    Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
    Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ Qods Force
    Islamic State
    Islamic State – Bangladesh
    Islamic State – Democratic Republic of the Congo
    Islamic State East Asia
    Islamic State in the Greater Sahara
    Islamic State – Khorasan Province (ISKP)
    Islamic State in Libya
    Islamic State – Sinai Province (ISSP)
    Islamic State West Africa Province
    Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
    Jama’at Nusrat Al-Islam Wal-Muslimin
    Jaysh Al-Muhajirin Wal-Ansar (JMA)
    Jemaah Islamiyyah (JI)
    Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa (MOJWA)
    Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
    Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
    Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC)
    Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
    Taliban
    Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP)

    #53240

    Unseen
    Participant

    Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)
    Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
    Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
    Al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)
    Al-Murabitoun
    Al-Muwaqi’un Bil Dima
    Al Qaida
    Al Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
    Al Qaida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)
    Al Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
    Al Shabaab
    Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade (AAMB)
    Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (AGAI)
    Ansar al-Islam (AI)
    Ansar Dine
    Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
    Aryan Strikeforce
    Asbat Al-Ansar (AAA) (The League of Partisans)
    Aum Shinrikyo
    Babbar Khalsa International (BKI)
    Boko Haram
    Caucasus Emirate
    Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s Faction of the Hezb-e Islami, Hezb-e Islami Gulbuddin (HIG)
    Hamas (Harakat Al-Muqawama Al-Islamiya) (Islamic Resistance Movement)
    Haqqani Network
    Harakat al-Sabireen (HaS)
    Harakat ul-Mudjahidin (HuM)
    HASAM (Harakat Sawa’d Misr)
    Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham
    Hizballah
    Hizbul Mujahideen
    Indian Mujahideen (IM)
    Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
    Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ Qods Force
    Islamic State
    Islamic State – Bangladesh
    Islamic State – Democratic Republic of the Congo
    Islamic State East Asia
    Islamic State in the Greater Sahara
    Islamic State – Khorasan Province (ISKP)
    Islamic State in Libya
    Islamic State – Sinai Province (ISSP)
    Islamic State West Africa Province
    Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
    Jama’at Nusrat Al-Islam Wal-Muslimin
    Jaysh Al-Muhajirin Wal-Ansar (JMA)
    Jemaah Islamiyyah (JI)
    Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa (MOJWA)
    Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
    Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
    Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC)
    Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
    Taliban
    Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP)

    The United States has around 750 known military bases around the world. That’s about 14 military bases for every one of those organizations (I roughly estimated about 55), and I’m sure they are all actively spreading good will and cheer and not terrorizing anyone.

    Can you seriously blame Palestinians for hating Israelis? Based on what?

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #53243

    Unseen
    Participant

    José Andrés Condemns Israel For Killing Aid Workers: ‘Stop Using Food As A Weapon’

    On Monday evening, Andrés confirmed that WCK lost “several of our sisters and brothers” in the Israeli attack hours earlier. The workers were traveling in a convoy of three cars ― two of which were armored vehicles branded with the charity’s logo on their roofs so Israeli forces would know not to attack them. WCK also said the convoy was driving in a so-called deconflicted zone, and that it had been coordinating movements with the Israeli military.

    Despite those safety measures, Israeli troops bombed the convoy as it was leaving the Deir al-Balah warehouse, where WCK workers had just delivered more than 100 tons of humanitarian food aid that arrived in Gaza via sea route. According to some reports and geolocation of the area, Israel launched three strikes on the cars in succession.

     

    #53244

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The Palestinians endorse a terrorist organization committed to exterminating and removing all Jews, same as the as Nazis. Anyone who kills a Jew is martyr and is celebrated. Israel does not have a stated goal of exterminating all Palestinians and would much prefer a negotiated settlement. Therefore, there is no possible moral equivalency argument in favor of those who dress their children up suicide vests.

    #53245

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Reverse power dynamic and Jews would be exterminated unless outside intervened. It is a mistake to see it as simply a government or terrorist group that is the exception to the bloodthirsty religious/cultural hatred of Jews-a hatred that is endemnic in the middle east. A hatred that is at least as puissant as the one that preceded the holocaust where all over Europe and Eastern Europe Jews were turned in by neighbors and murdered by neighbors. A hatred that is systematically propagated by the progressives and passed on to the youth of the world in a BS narrative that not only spreads lies but makes overt antisemitism socially acceptable if not de riguer. A hate that sees the UN employ teachers who teach Palestinians to kill Jews and it is not even a story.

    If there were only Palestinians in present day Israel or it was still Turks or Brits or name the people who had hegemony over the region we would hear not a peep from the world at the atrocities, conditions and oppression. Proof is we hear nothing about Arab/Muslim on Arab/Muslim shit. Other Arabs in surrounding territory don’t care about the Palestinians or they would treat them like humans and yet they don’t. Nobody complains about the open air prison created by Egypt on the southern border. And i have little doubt that few Palestinians who are Israeli citizens would if given chance move to another nation in the middle east. It is better to live among Jews in a BETTER country where they are treated better.

    And the Palestinians will learn nothing.

    But lets mollycoddle the Islamists. Don’t say any bad shit about Islam lest ye be accused of bigotry. As long as we cherish Islamophobia as a construct we keep oppression alive. Keep women in chains. Keep LGBT in the closet so they are not executed. Keep antisemitism historically virulent. Yeah the free marketplace of ideas is inefficient as it can be. But utter silence in the face of Islam is a license to continue the old and degenerate and barbaric ways. Go go gophers, watch em go go go…

    Loony Tunes…

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