Slavery Reparations

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Reg the Fronkey Farmer 6 months, 2 weeks ago.

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    Here is a debate from 2001 on the topic (includes Hitchens). It is a long video so here is one part with just Hitchens.



    Reparations- Like someone already said, Native Americans, woman, Pilgrims… What about them? Especially Native Americans. Do we give them back their land?

    I’m one of those yokels that has never bought into the “Greatness” of America. With that said I’ll relate a story. My daughter is studying for her Masters Degree in England. While there, one of her retainers broke and the wire was digging into her gums. She thought she would have to wait a week, when she returned home to the USA for a visit, and have the wire cut. I immediately started looking up Orthodontist on my healthcare plan. I have a decent PPO. My plan of course allows me to keep my kids on it till they turn 26. That’s for Dental and Medical. But not for Orthodontist after the age of 19; she’s 24. I would have to pay out of pocket. Her boyfriend, who is British, took her to a Dentist in London. This is the conversation she texted me:

    Daughter: Hey just wanted to let you know I’m at the dentist using the National healthcare system and my socialist soul is singing

    Me: LOL

    Daughter: Using the people’s healthcare

    Me: So, so happy but we no longer call it socialism, according to Bill Maher ( ) Capitalism Plus!

    Daughter: Lol I’ll watch it when I get out of the socialist dentist’s office

    Daughter: The first thing they said to me when I walked in was “you have beautiful teeth”

    Daughter: And I was like yes I’m an American

    Me: LMAO!

    Didn’t cost me a cent. The dentist was so impressed with the quality of work of her fillings he asked her to sit while he took X-rays and ogled at how beautiful her fillings were!

    It helps that we, my wife and I, are covered by a great dental plan through her job, subsidized by us and her job. Not all fillings in ‘Merica come out as great as hers did. But if you can afford it and pay you’re walking around with fillings that even dentist in London will fawn over. BTW: my Dental, through my job, is not as great as my wife’s but, while my wife’s plan dropped our daughter after she turned 22 my job kept her dental until she turns 26.

    I’m all for state sponsored health care. Especially for the least fortunate. And yeah, I know that I’ll have to pay for the well being of others. Isn’t that suppose to be what those zany fucking christians espouse but never really implement?






    And While we are on the subject, someone talked about taxes. My wife and I filed our tax returns. We owe the government thousands more than what we normally pay. Asked the CPA about Trumps “Tax Cuts” and his response:

    “If you make over $400,000 most people walk out of my office with a smile. If you make less than $60,000 most people walk out of my office with a smile. Do the math…” He said that there have been a lot of people walking out distraught this year. We were one of them. BTW: We consider ourselves middle class working slobs.



    This has not been my experience as a design… You should directly ask African-American coleagues, women colleagues and any other marginalized people in the office (including those in mid-level and low-level ranks). Ask them directly, clearly, openly, sincerely what their experiences have been like. If they mention experiences, its more than possible they are true. Not everything happens out in the open. Even a few bad apples can make work a toxic environment. One cannot notice every employee who is being ignored/interrupted/looked-over. If they don’t relate bad experiences, then that’s awesome. you must have a really nice work environment. If the do, then things aren’t as peachy as they seemed. You can find out so much about the office by just asking people. Even ask your wife/daughter and friends who are minorities/LGTBQ+ etc about their own experiences at work and in public. Let me know if you were surprised or not by what people said.

    As a manager I do interact with African Americans co-workers daily and guess what?- they are more conservative than me. In fact- they often convey how they feel a little guilty about the kid-gloves they are treated with. My company’s internal website is adorned with the colors of the rainbow and video’s of LGBT employees talking about how they are proudly contributing to our high tech business. HR is dominated by feminist and a white male is one comment away from being shown the door. Fortune-500 America is on-board with the liberal agenda- perhaps under legal threat, but never-the-less it is. The millennials I hire are not high performers in general and require more attention than my generation, but they are certainly not racists and are very accepting and all about quality of life. But my business concerns public safety and all of these liberal agendas must take a back seat to producing a safe and verified system. I will withhold  comments concerning the Boeing debacle, but you get my drift.



    You know this may be the only place I know of  where folks can have real discussions like this. It’s a good place to learn. I wish it was a little more active but I would not trade that for the kindness and civility that has been a hallmark of this forum since I signed up many years ago  😉



    You seem to be implying that they are leaving Canada in order to bask in the glow of America’s health care system. Somehow, I doubt that. BTW, in happiness surveys, Canadians are up near the top of the list and Americans way down near the bottom, so a lot of those Canadians leaving Canada for the US might be experience some buyer’s regret after a while.

    No, I am implying that Canadians are willing to give up their system to join in the risky fray that is the US. I don’t believe in happiness surveys. I will not be moving to Sweden because they claim they are so fuckin happy. Nothing great comes from being a content sheep. May as well be a Catholic dupe. I believe in real data.  If more Canadians are leaving Canada for the US than vice-versa that’s all I need to know. American culture is a restless culture, a culture looking for a problems to solve. Great risk can bring great reward. Who gives a fuck about the value of the Russian ruble, the Swiss Franc or the Canadian dollar?  Go to Viet Nam. Every street vendor will take the US dollar in a heartbeat. Why is that? Sure, it is easy to bash the big dog. Remember this. Over taxation is reason the US became a country in the first place. Our founders implemented the ideas of John Locke and the Enlightenment. They blew off big religion and social standing. Yes they fucked-up by not abolishing slavery or engaging womenkind as equals- but it was a start and we are still working on it. Lets not forget the core values that were responsible for our inception.



    But professor, that’s known in philosophy as a “slippery slope” fallacy. 🙂

    Not necessarily a fallacy. As an informal fallacy, it doesn’t result in a necessarily determined result the way a formal fallacy would. That’s true. Whether to accept it is based on evidence, experience, and common sense. Common sense tells me that if one group gets checks in the mail, other people who feel they’ve been injured over time will start lining up at Congress’s door. What will we tell women, for example? Your claim is invalid because…” Women were virtual slaves far longer than African slaves in the Americas.


    Women were virtual slaves far longer than African slaves in the Americas.

    From Mrs. E. Cady Stanton’s “History of Woman’s Suffrage,” in which she speaks of the status of the female of the species in Boston about the year 1850:

    “Women could not hold any property, either earned or inherited. If unmarried, she was obliged to place it in the hands of a trustee, to whose will she was subject. If she contemplated marriage, and desired to call her property her own, she was forced by law to make a contract with her intended husband by which she gave up all title or claim to it. A woman, either married or unmarried, could hold no office or trust or power. She was not a person. She was not recognized as a citizen. She was not a factor in the human family. She was not a unit, but a zero in the sum of civilization…. The status of a married woman was little better than that of a domestic servant. By the English Common Law her husband was her lord and master. He had the sole custody of her person and of her minor children. He could punish her ‘with a stick no bigger than his thumb’ and she could not complain against him…. The common law of the State [Massachusetts] held man and wife to be one person, but that person was the husband. He could by will deprive her of every part of his property, and also of what had been her own before marriage. He was the owner of all her real estate and earnings. The wife could make no contract and no will, nor, without her husband’s consent, dispose of the legal interest of her real estate…. She did not own a rag of her clothing. She had no personal rights and could hardly call her soul her own. Her husband could steal her children, rob her of her clothing, and neglect to support the family: she had no legal redress. If a wife earned money by her own labor, the husband could claim the pay as his share of the proceeds.”

    With such a contrast in mind, it is indeed difficult to see where the truth of the assertion lies when it is stated that the status of woman was indeed pitiful until Christianity exerted its influence for her betterment. And it is again curious to note that after a period of nearly 2000 years of Christian influence it was left for a sceptic such as Mrs. Stanton and her sceptical co-workers to bring about an amelioration of the degrading position of woman in Christian society.

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