They didn't do it. We did.

[UnseenParticipant]

Pulitzer Prize winner Seymour Hersh is up there with Woodward and Bernstein in the pantheon of America’s best and most trusted investigated journalists. Without Hersh, we wouldn’t have learned about the My Lai Massacre or the abuses at Abu Graib on Cuba, for example.

His latest scoop affirms what many who don’t automatically trust whatever the government mouthpiece says have always suspected if you just “follow the money.” What is that? That there is NO evidence Russia would voluntarily take a major bargaining chip off the table by blowing up the Nord Stream pipelines. Why did Biden do it? Probably to force European nations off the Russian petro teat, forcing further dependency on the United States.

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Guantanamo Bay is in Cuba, Abu Ghraib is in Iraq. If Hersh was looking for Abu Ghraib in Cuba, he’d be way off course. 😉

Just so you know, My New Year’s Resolution for 2023 is to bring the word “Dummy” back to our culture’s lexicon. It is the nicest way to describe willful insapience. 😁

Sanford Dummy Reel

[UnseenParticipant]

@Enco

Thanks for pointing out the mixup. Actually I know that. Brain fart. The mistake was mine, not Hersh’s. It’s unlikely Hersh is making a mistake based on his track record.

 

[_Robert_Participant]

Once again, like all good conspiracy theories there is no verifiable evidence. Zilch. A single “unnamed source” could be a Russian spy/false flag. However, if the US did blow it up- way to go, congratulations Joe! Maybe the Germans were even on board. Just a tiny little payback for all that election meddling and Russian fuckery in general. There is so much more we could do to make Putin’s clown show fail miserably. Maybe we could launch a whole bunch of weather balloons or something. That’ll teach them.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco, insapience?

Was thinking holy cock balls. Enco is gonna add to my already extensive vocabulary. No such word though. However ya did point out Vienna Teng and for that i am grateful.

Oh hey news has covered how much human trafficking is in California-some of it in the open. Maybe some of the traffickers are libertarians. If only the government would get its nose out of our business we could get a fair price on a commodity like that.

[UnseenParticipant]

@robert

The White House denies Hersh’s allegations, as expected, and their motivation is twofold. First, it could damage relations with European allies who are suffering a very tough winter in terms of heating and the cascading problems in supply chains resulting from a severe shortage of natural gas.

Second, and equally if not more serious, to blow up the pipeline is an act of war which requires at least a shred of plausible deniability.

While Hersh bases his piece on a single inside source he knows and trusts, he has always been a meticulous journalist whose sources have always proven to be good as gold. It’s backed up by a number of coincidences, chief among them a war games exercise which, he asserts, provided the needed cover.

It should also be noted that it would have been hard for Russia to do it totally unnoticed. Since their flagahip the Moskva was sunk so handily, they have not had much of a presence in the area with most of their ships at anchor in port.

Now, let’s go over the relative motivations.

America:

All but eliminates European dependence on Russia.
Takes away a major Russian bargaining chip.
American gets a new market with a pretty pink bow on top.
Hits Russia in the pocketbook.
Putin is readily blamable. “He’s everyone’s bad guy.”

Russia:

Might be able to sell idea “America did it,” despite the skepticism it could anticipate.
Might motivate European NATO members to want to end the conflict.

And let’s not forget that Pres. Biden actually threatened to disable the pipelines assuring that when the time came, it would be done.

Now, Robert, you can’t believe anything any government says in wartime. So, look at the evidenced. What evidence tells you that America didn’t do it and Russia did?

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Enco, insapience? Was thinking holy cock balls. Enco is gonna add to my already extensive vocabulary. No such word though. However ya did point out Vienna Teng and for that i am grateful. Oh hey news has covered how much human trafficking is in California-some of it in the open. Maybe some of the traffickers are libertarians. If only the government would get its nose out of our business we could get a fair price on a commodity like that.

“I’ll take that thirteen year old blonde and that really hot six year old redhead.”

Actually, “insapience” is a word because, well, there it is. A neologism in search of a meaning. I like the word. I find it ancompleccible.”

[_Robert_Participant]

I really hope the US did this but right now you or I can’t conclude anything on a single unnamed source. It is possible this reporter was scammed or made a mistake. Geez, I thought you required real evidence, but I guess this is not true for you anymore? Listing motivations is pure speculation.

As far as I am concerned Russia already commenced an act or war by meddling in our elections. Blowing up a pipe is insignificant by comparison.

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-2016-u-s-elections

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/new-evidence-shows-how-russias-election-interference-has-gotten-more

Are you dead and have had your accounts stolen by a Russian video promotion bot? They are pretty sneaky, but gladly they are also stupid. Best thing that has happened to geopolitics in decades is how Putin is suicide-diving head-first into a shit pile.

[UnseenParticipant]

@robert

More Putin propaganda. This time renowned economist Jeffrey Sachs explains how he knew immediately it had to be the U.S. who did it. He doesn’t use the words, but basically if you apply Occam’s Razor you almost have to arrive at the conclusion the U.S. did it.

While few countries do, both the U.S. and Russia have the means to sabotage the pipelines. Only the U.S. was talking openly about destroying the pipeline and you’d be hard pressed to come up with any evidence of a motive for Russia to do it. The gas sold through the pipeline was a major source of income, after all. On the other hand, ending the pipeline offered the U.S. several advantages: 1) it would end a major source of income for Russia; 2) it would increase European dependence on the U.S. for energy supplies, and of course; 3) it’s become a distraction; 4) it would appease pressure coming from the floor of the Senate by GOP Senators to end it; and 5) wherever there’s money to be made, it should be the U.S. who makes it.

BTW, after the destruction of the pipelines, many American officials were publicly happy that it had happened and treated it as an opportunity.

Based on the evidence, the U.S. is easily the most likely perpetrator.

To his credit, the host puts up a stiff skeptical critique of Sach’s position.

Robert, I don’t know what you’d need as proof we did it. What’s your case Russia did?

• This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.

[_Robert_Participant]

I guess I’ll repeat that if Joe ordered it, good for him. $mart move. If Russia did it, it was to strike a little fear into Germany about losing all their energy just before winter, so they’d abandon support for NATO and Ukraine. Or the pipeline is just a leaky piece of shit like everything Russia does. Funny how they had “just fixed it”, lol.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazprom-says-nord-stream-1-pipeline-shut-three-days-end-aug-2022-08-19/

Sachs is a big Chinese apologist asswipe BTW. I knew I remembered his name.

[UnseenParticipant]

@robert

If you go to Sachs’s Wikipedia page, and scroll down to “Awards and Honors,” you’ll see it begins with…

In 2004 and 2005, Sachs was named one of the 100 Most Influential People in the World by Time. He was also named one of the “500 Most Influential People in the Field of Foreign Policy” by the World Affairs Councils of America.

In 1993, the New York Times called Sachs “probably the most important economist in the world.” In 2005, Sachs received the Sargent Shriver Award for Equal Justice. In 2007, he was awarded the Padma Bhushan, the third highest civilian honor bestowed by the government of India. Also in 2007, he received the Cardozo Journal of Conflict Resolution International Advocate for Peace Award and the Centennial Medal from the Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences for his contributions to society.

In 2007, Sachs received the S. Roger Horchow Award for Greatest Public Service by a Private Citizen, an award given out annually by Jefferson Awards.

But that’s just the first 25% or so. I know I can’t and I doubt if you can come anywhere close to Sach’s long list of accomplishments and accolades. I only mention this since you so brusquely dismiss him as if he’s a nobody.

This dismissing of learned and highly competent experts as apologists or tools of Russia or China by people who are in no position to be doing so is just a cop out to avoid accepting some unpleasant realities.

Sachs is just noting that between Occam’s Razor and following the money, it’s hard to say the U.S. didn’t do it, and once again you’ve provided  NO evidence they didn’t.

[_Robert_Participant]

Let’s try this a third time. I didn’t say we did not do it. I said I hope we did. I have seen no evidence. Right there on your Wiki page we have proof you have a China shill and advisor to the Pope who shoots his mouth off with no evidence.

“Sachs says he is “pretty convinced,” though “not sure” that COVID-19 came out of “US lab biotechnology,””

During a January 2021 interview, despite the interviewer’s repeated prompting, Sachs evaded questions about China’s repression of Uyghur people and resorted to whataboutism by alluding to “huge human rights abuses committed by the U.S.”

Plenty of evidence Sachs-o-Shit is essentially a Chinese butt plug and what is good for Russia is good for China so I could care less about his “academic” awards.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2180296/us-economist-jeffrey-sachs-retreats-twitter-after-criticising

https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/2080439/jeffrey-sachs-a-xi-propagandist-

The Columbia University economics professor, who advises both the U.N. and the Holy See on the environment, warned last August against escalating tensions with the People’s Republic and in 2019 took himself off Twitter after comments he made defending the Chinese tech giant Huawei caused a media storm (Sachs continues to be a supporter of the company, which critics say is a tool for Chinese espionage).

Meanwhile, he has dismissed the human rights atrocities against the Uyghurs as “propaganda” against the Chinese government but backtracked in 2018, tweeting he was “trying to understand” the situation.

Yeah, it’s real, real hard to understand what China is doing to those Muslims.

https://www.ncregister.com/blog/jeffrey-sachs-and-the-vatican-silent-on-china-s-rights-abuses

Maybe he should emigrate to China and try writing some anti-government crap about them, LOL.

[UnseenParticipant]

@robert

Regarding Sachs’s softness on China and Russia, he is a great believer in resolving conflicts through negotiation and compromise. However, it’s hard to bring someone to the table when you are tongue lashing them and engaging in unrelated accusations. WW3 defines the stakes.

And, BTW, not to be too whataboutist about it, but are we, actively participating in the genocide in Yemen, in any position to be slamming China over their handling of the Uyghurs? (Or maybe you don’t know about Yemen? Not surprising if you base your attitudes on what the mainstream press feeds you.)

But whatever. It’s sad that someone you think is on the wrong side of so many things can see the obvious more clearly than you. And I know you’ve said that if the U.S. did it, you’re glad they did. I’m not sure people dying of cold in Europe would agree.

The way the mainstream media spends more time on fluff like celebrations in St. Louis over their Super Bowl win than it does exploring who sabotaged the pipeline or the etiology of Covid is depressing. Where are the Woodwards and Bernsteins of today?

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Where are the Woodwards and Bernsteins of today?

Don’t despair, I think I found one here!!

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

@robert Regarding Sachs’s softness on China and Russia, he is a great believer in resolving conflicts through negotiation and compromise. However, it’s hard to bring someone to the table when you are tongue lashing them and engaging in unrelated accusations. WW3 defines the stakes. And, BTW, not to be too whataboutist about it, but are we, actively participating in the genocide in Yemen, in any position to be slamming China over their handling of the Uyghurs? (Or maybe you don’t know about Yemen? Not surprising if you base your attitudes on what the mainstream press feeds you.) But whatever. It’s sad that someone you think is on the wrong side of so many things can see the obvious more clearly than you. And I know you’ve said that if the U.S. did it, you’re glad they did. I’m not sure people dying of cold in Europe would agree. The way the mainstream media spends more time on fluff like celebrations in St. Louis over their Super Bowl win than it does exploring who sabotaged the pipeline or the etiology of Covid is depressing. Where are the Woodwards and Bernsteins of today?

The people dying in Europe are Ukrainian civilians and civilians-turned-soldiers to preserve their right to self-govern. Once again.

I’m sure the leaders in China, North Korea, Russia, and Iran all care about you and love you lots as the West divides itself into a death spiral. Just great freedom loving folks who will be glad to help rid the world of all those nasty woke gay liberals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX-F6UHtEcY

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