WAKE UP WOKE PEOPLE!

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This topic contains 103 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  Autumn 18 hours, 40 minutes ago.

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  • #46533

    Unseen
    Participant

    One idea is the so-called “15-minute city,” where…well, I’ll let this viddy explain it:

    Further explanation:

    And it has its critics:

    And worse:

    As a side note. I’m 76 and as a small I lived in something like a 15-minute city. I remember my mother taking me and my brother to shops and to the dentist on foot.

    Then zoning came along.

    Will 15-minute cities ever happen without an authoritarian government forcing them on the citizenry. Sure, they sound swell. It’d be nice to walk to your doctor or your job, but what if they are across town? What if the nearest grocery store is just across the nearby boundary in the next district over but the one in your district is on the other side?

    And I guess finally, do ordinary people have any say in matters like this being discussed by people who fly to Davos on private jets?

    #46534

    Davis
    Moderator

    Yeah, in Europe we have had no free plastic bags for nearly a decade now and most countries have or are banning single use plastic bags. The UK is behind on this, of course, now that it has left the EU, it has the “autonomy” and “freedom” to pollute at whatever rate is economically viable while public opinion eventually demands environmental protection. Spain and Belgium mostly does reusable bags and easily recyclable paper bags.

    Belgium has the best recycling program I know. You pay for specific coloured garbage bags. They are NOT collected (as they are transparant) unless sorted correctly. green=organic, Pink=plastic, blue=metal/containers, black=paper (glass is put in a common hop on many street corners) and brown for all else. Brown bags are very small and cost €1.50, so not sorting your recycling becomes QUITE expensive quite quickly. Even more so, if you don’t include coloured bags along with the brown ones, they will not be picked up. Green bags cost only 5 cents. If you put normal rubbish in a green bag (and they will check through the transparent bags) NOTHING will be collected. Collection is weekly, so that will get very smelly in the summer. Due to this, everyone is responsible and careful (it is not hard to do) and this is cost effective, uncontroversial and people habitually and responsibly recycle (properly sorting). I remember talking with two Americans who were outraged by all of this for two different reasons.

    One was sort of libertarian and was outraged that you couldn’t just throw out your rubbish however you felt like it. I replied that, yes, in fact, if you personally bring it to a collection centre (there aren’t too many of them) then you can dispose of it all completely for free. So yeah, there is personal choice there, you just have to put it in a car or take it on a bus to a few limited places and then you can avoid the bags if you really despise them (which no one in Belgium seems to)

    Another was outraged on a liberal level, that you had to pay for the brown bags and that low income people would be unfairly hurt by the cost. Well, it is Western Europe, so, obviously there are programs in place where people on low income get subsidised or a reasonable number of free bags PLUS they usually get pretty generous benefits from the government anyways. Despite these answers, the two were still outraged. LOL

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  Davis.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  Davis.
    #46537

    _Robert_
    Participant

    One benefit of composting is you never have stinky garbage bins. We grow about 20% of our food now with a goal of 50% as we become more skillful. Wow, a real garden tomato or Red Marconi pepper roasting pepper has so much flavor compared to the market crap that is grown 5,000 miles away. The bugs and animals do take their share, it’s OK, I don’t use chemicals. Pond water and compost do just fine.

    #46538

    Davis
    Moderator

    In fact, when I lived in Belgium, I would go through a 25 roll of (very small) brown rubbish bags maybe in year. When you exclude organic, paper, glass, metal, containers, plastic…there is actually very little left to throw out. Big things go to a collection centre anyways (as do batteries, light bulbs and electronics). So in fact, it took two weeks to fill up a small brown bag (about the size of a back pack more or less). The organic would get a little gross in the summer, this is true, would have been nice if it were picked up twice a week in the summer. Thing is, everything is SO dense in Europe (especially Belgium and large cities in general) that I never actually had a front or back garden so had no use for compost. Though I do have friends who rent out allotments (little garden spaces you can do what you like with) but you know…meh…even if I had a back garden I cannot imagine planting anything. I never even had a house plant cactus that didn’t die prematurely.

    #46539

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Here in Oregon plastic grocery bags are banned and there is a fee for using the store-supplied paper grocery bags, so people are encouraged to bring their own reusable bags or spend money to buy bags. Seems to be working.

    With Aldi and Lidl, reusable bags are not mandatory, but rather a revenue stream, which I find simply ingenious.💲

    #46540

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Robert that is good stuff. Growing your own shit requires more know-how than one might expect. It is super rewarding too and nice to know what you are eating and its mostly better than what ya can find at a market. Problem is your state may not be seaworthy.

    #46541

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    As a side note. I’m 76 and as a small I lived in something like a 15-minute city. I remember my mother taking me and my brother to shops and to the dentist on foot.

    Then zoning came along.

    Zoning boards are like incubation boxes for the little squab Schwab’s to grow in to big Kolonel Klink Klauses and be future heads of the World Economic Foundation.🐣🐤🐥🐓

    I remember when zoning came to my county 33 years ago. The County Commissioners doors and the County Seat building were lock so no one could get in, police were lined up outside to block protesters, and there were even snipers on the rooftop! It was like the Totalitarian oppression that died a year before in Eastern Europe just reincarnated in my back yard!

    Will 15-minute cities ever happen without an authoritarian government forcing them on the citizenry. Sure, they sound swell. It’d be nice to walk to your doctor or your job, but what if they are across town? What if the nearest grocery store is just across the nearby boundary in the next district over but the one in your district is on the other side?

    And I guess finally, do ordinary people have any say in matters like this being discussed by people who fly to Davos on private jets?

    While I do like being close to shops, restaurants, pharmacies, Physicians, and other amenities, I like to broaden my horizons for specialized goods and services too. Making or forbidding people to do anything peaceful is a sure way to get buck-up…even dangerous buck-up.

    #46542

    Unseen
    Participant

    We may be making costly social and economic changes while wasting our money fighting climate change that’s going to happen anyway, like it or don’t. According to actual climate scientists: Anti-climate change consensus: Italian scientists say global warming is not man-made

    The climate simulation models promoted by the UN do not reproduce the natural variability of the climate and, in particular, do not reconstitute the warm periods of the last 10,000 years, which, according to the signatories, leads to significant errors.

    When these parameters are added to the models, the warming is found to have recurred every thousand years.

    For example, there is the medieval warm period, around the year 800, when the temperature was 2°C above the average temperature, at a time when there were no industrial processes that released polluting gases.

    The same thing also happened during the warm Roman period, between 250 BC and 400 AD, when the temperature rose 0.6°C; the Minoan warm period, between 1,500 and 1,200 years BC, with a climatic anomaly of +1.2ºC.; and the so-called Climatic Holocene, 8,000 years ago.

    These past periods were warmer than today, with the CO2 concentration lower than today; and no one denies the climatic phenomena behind him.

    #46543

    Unseen
    Participant

    Question: Is the World Economic Forum (WEF) becoming an unelected and self-appointed shadow world government that no one wants and which comes up with hair-brained policies that favor large corporations and destroy small businesses?

    Farmers in The Netherlands and New Zealand think so and have been engaging in highly-disruptive strikes and protests which are about highly-oppressive and draconian measures to reduce the production of various pollutants.

    Explained: Why Dutch farmers are holding protests over emissions

    The Netherlands has become the second most productive farm economy in the world, second only to the United States with its vast resources. Measures like this, championed by the WEF, tend to disfavor smaller operations in favor of huge corporations which, if they made changes, might actually produce greater results.

    When the WEF meets annually at Davos, no farmers get representation but corporate giants who arrive in private jets do.

    Some of the policies floated by the WEF and associated operations float drastic changes that many regard as hare-brained or pie-in-the sky. The so-called 15-minute city being an example.

    Maybe drastic changes are needed, but is a benevolent dictatorship the way to go, especially when it’s not all that benevolent?

     

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Unseen.
    #46546

    Davis
    Moderator

    That’s amazing, we can fin 1d in 1000 climate scientists who poo poo the overwhelming consensus on climate change. I wonder, if when one has critical kidney failure, they should seek out the 1 in 1000 doctors who recommend Papua New Guinea herbs instead of dialysis.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Davis.
    #46548

    _Robert_
    Participant

    That’s amazing, we can fin 1d in 1000 climate scientists who poo poo the overwhelming consensus on climate change. I wonder, if when one has critical kidney failure, they should seek out the 1 in 1000 doctors who recommend Papua New Guinea herbs instead of dialysis.

    There’s a whole business of being a climate change denier.  I enjoy looking up these clowns and just like the “intelligent design” liars these “climate scientists rarely actually have a history working the field and are often funded by big energy. They are well known to climatologists. Case in point.

    https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Judith_Curry

    So, the first name on that dubious article from Unseen that I picked has him saying in 2012 the climate is getting cooler and there are plenty of papers showing how his “research” is flawed, LOL. Apparently, his explanation for warming is some unknown events related to the solar system.

    https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2022/10/scafetta-comes-back-for-more/

    https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2022/03/issues-and-errors-in-a-new-scafetta-paper/

    If you want bad science, just ask Unseen.

    #46549

    jakelafort
    Participant

    It is wild and disturbing how much milder the winters have gotten in my state of Connecticut. No more snowshoes gives me da blues.

    #46550

    Unseen
    Participant

    If you want bad science, just ask Unseen.

    I see now what Galileo was up against. LOL

    Much more seriously, Bjorn Lomborg isn’t a climate denier at all and he believes human activities are a contributor, he just feels much of the proposed responses won’t work and will actually cause harm, especially to the poorest and most vulnerable people of the world. Additionally, he suggests we have more time than Chicken Littles like Al Gore (who has been predicting that we have only five years for about 30 years now) imply we do. He also suggests that for whatever is left over, we can adapt, as we have in the past because climate change is nothing new.

    He doesn’t deny anything but does suggest smarter approaches the public will tolerate and with benefits for everyone.

    #46557

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I see now what Galileo was up against. LOL

    No, you don’t. You see the deniers and their “we are overreacting” suck ups are “The Church”, the old money, the ones who want to keep the status quo.  The other 95% of true scientists from dozens of disciplines are collecting data, improving global models and trying to get people to understand this is real, the planet is small, the tipping points are exponential, and the mass extinction is underway.

    #46558

    _Robert_
    Participant

    It is very amusing to see so many Americans born in the 1940s and 50’s become anti-vax, climate change deniers and Trump worshipers. The whole “stick it to the man” thing turned around on them as society changed for the better, they still want to see conspiracies in every institution and agency. The died by the droves chocking on their own lung juices, begging for COVID vaccines too late. The fucked around and found out. And now they are threatening democracy itself by, mostly at the local state levels, fucking with voting rights. Morons.

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