When Life Became Sentient
August 25, 2018 at 6:34 pm #11127
Yeah Simon it is a scent test. I guess that disproves his hypothesis.
And again it confirms my notion that we cant just blindly superimpose human attributes onto other animals and make sweeping conclusions based on their failure to pass tests that are human-centric.August 25, 2018 at 6:47 pm #11128
His hypothesis would seem to be that self-identification and prosocial behaviour go together, so I don’t think the dog-sniff test disproves it.August 25, 2018 at 10:03 pm #11131
Simon says: “This is named after the fact that young children start to pass the mirror test at the same time as they begin to realise that they are separate people in their own right, treat their dolls as if they are people,”
The child care folk I studied in a teacher prep course said that when children realise they are separate people in their own right, they say “No!’ loudly to every suggestion their caregivers (usually parents) make. They are individuating.
The “terrible twos” period in their lives is well named and some mothers have told me it may start months earlier.August 26, 2018 at 5:31 am #11139
Some humans become self-aware to the point of obsession, especially in a mirror test. Such traits vary not only across species, but even among humans across different ages, professions, and personality traits. There’s also a highly variable social component to self-awareness, as in how one compares oneself to others and determines (and acquiesces to) its status and/or “role”. Even pack animals go through this exercise.
And cats probably don’t care what humans think of them, but they sure do spend a lot of time cleaning themselves. Just sayin’.August 26, 2018 at 11:39 pm #11174
Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors, a Search for Who We Are
Hey. THanks for the recommendation. I have a pretty enormous reading list but I will put the book on it. Sometimes older books can explain general concepts and I find older books also add a lot more humanity and an intersting narrative. For example Desmond Morris’s books like “The human zoo” and “The Naked Ape”, while having a few details rather out of date, in general these books taught me just how animalistic we are. Tell you what, if you agree to read the Human Zoo, I’ll read Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors. I’d love a chance to discuss Desmond Morrises work with someone.
Deal! On “The Human Zoo,” I mean. Morris is not an author I am familiar with, so I would like to check him out. But, like you, my reading list is pretty long, so I won’t give you a hard, fast deadline, nor expect one from you. With school back in session, my three-dimensional life is pretty much kicking my ass right now, so my time to read for my own purposes is more limited. I will expect you to keep your end of the bargain, though! 🙂
You had given me a reading list on another thread that had a couple of Dawkins and Hitchens works on it. I meant to get back to you on that, but never had the chance. I had tried to read their work several years ago–they being some of the authors already in vogue among my fellow atheists then–but, to be honest, I didn’t get far with them. I’m afraid I found them ponderous and a bit dull. Maybe I just wasn’t ready for them at that point. I have been thinking about revisiting them to see if I feel differently about them.
That’s what happened to me with Arthur C. Clark and “2001: A Space Odyssey.” I tried to read it when I was around 11-12, I think. It was over my head, and I didn’t really understand it at all. Later, as an adult, I read it again, and was able to grasp it; ended up reading several of Clark’s novels. Really enjoyed them a lot. So timing is everything, and I sometimes go back to things that I didn’t like at all on first reading to find out if they resonate with me differently.
DOKAugust 27, 2018 at 12:52 am #11177
Daughterofkarl, you just brought back a memory. 2001 was first serious book i read at age of six. And it was a tough read. After that reading was a ritual for me and i read every night.
Also it is weird to read a book first as a child and then as an adult. I did that with some Bertrand Russell. Read him when i was around 12 and thought he was so brilliant. Upon revisiting him i was not nearly as impressed.August 27, 2018 at 2:56 am #11178
Daughterofkarl, you just brought back a memory. 2001 was first serious book i read at age of six. And it was a tough read. After that reading was a ritual for me and i read every night. Also it is weird to read a book first as a child and then as an adult. I did that with some Bertrand Russell. Read him when i was around 12 and thought he was so brilliant. Upon revisiting him i was not nearly as impressed.
Jeez Louise, jake (can I call you that?) you were reading “2001” at six??!! Damn. I bet you were a little terrifying as a child! 🙂 (I am totally teasing you, you know that, right?) I am a nightly reader myself. It’s like the little treat I give myself at the end of every day when the house is finally quiet and everybody and everything is taken care of, and I can have just a bit of time to myself.
August 27, 2018 at 3:21 am #11180
- This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by daughterofkarl.
Daughterofkarl, you can call me anything but do not call me late for supper. There is an old and crappy joke. Went from Miss Pickerell Goes to Mars to 2001…now that was a LEAP!
Yeah, reading enriches life so much. In a way it is sad though how we accumulate all of this knowledge and in the end we are just as dead. My dad is an encyclopedia or he was…has a brain tumor and after a failed operation all of those years of reading and i estimate he consumed in excess of ten thousand books and now it is mostly gone. Am happy he is alive though. But it all goes poof…August 27, 2018 at 10:15 am #11182
I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams… glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those… moments…will be lost… in time… like tears in rain. Time… to die…..August 27, 2018 at 10:20 am #11183
Haha…An ex girlfriend once said to me “Why do you have books open all over the house? Can’t you just read one at a time”!!August 27, 2018 at 11:13 am #11184
I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams… glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those… moments…will be lost… in time… like tears in rain. Time… to die….. Video.
Unfortunately the sequel was pale by comparison, IMHO.August 27, 2018 at 4:31 pm #11187
@robert – I thought it was OK. I might watch it again sometime. Having watched the original several times over the years I was not expecting too much. One movie I watched recently was Annihilation which I thought was very good though I know plenty of people that did not like it one bit. I think a basic understanding of the multi-universe with different dimensions is needed. It was a good effort at show that other life forms can be sentient too.August 27, 2018 at 7:37 pm #11188
I knew which scene that was before watching it again. I’d call that being “super sentient”. How about you, TomS?August 28, 2018 at 4:31 am #11190
You have good instincts, PB. I haven’t told anyone I’m super sentient.August 31, 2018 at 8:50 pm #11221
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