A little something regarding the decline of Darwinism and Neo-Darwinists
August 11, 2018 at 4:01 am #10788
I could almost swear I just heard some Fronkeys snickering in the background!August 11, 2018 at 7:00 am #10791
In Wikipedia, search on “kitz” (or on “Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District”) for the 2005 outcome of an attempt by the Discovery Institute to disguise creationism as 1) intelligent design, and then as 2) science. The article links to the court’s 165-page ruling and cites from it.
And yes, disappointed xians verbally attacked the “activist” judge. To see his reply, search the article for “activist”.
One DI tactic backfired comedically. They tried to disguise a creationist book as an intelligent design book via a search-and-replace and produced one mutant term that included part of both terms.
Earle, the case all but wrecked the Disc. Inst. They’ve been rather quiet since 2005.August 11, 2018 at 10:04 am #10793
@Earle- Would you consider this to be a good education for children or would you, like me, considered it to be vulgar indoctrination at the hands of a deluded fundamentalist. Would you consider it “Science 2018” ?August 11, 2018 at 12:13 pm #10794
Ham’s childlike understanding of the past (if he really believes his own BS (why is he here in the American South?)) will appeal to children and retard their mental development for sure. The smart ones will eventually reject this idiocy as they look at the fossil record and begin to understand the science of biology/genetics and become very, very angry. I speak from first hand knowledge. Some will even go on to become scientists and engineers, however most will just lead uneducated lives, as ignorant about reality as their Muslim and Hindu counterparts.
August 11, 2018 at 2:22 pm #10796
- This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by _Robert_.
As far I am concerned it is child abuse. As most children grow older and learn to think independently they while see Creationism for the delusional nonsense that it is. But they should never have to go through this process. They should be attending critical thinking classes instead. Learning how to reason is a skill that should be nurtured from childhood. It is like saying children should be imprisoned so that they learn to appreciate freedom. Those that don’t recover from the indoctrination remain enslaved to faith based ideologies.
Aron Ra once told me that he has met with the publishers of Creationist books for schools in Texas and other Southern States who admitted they know that what they publish is not only unscientific but also untrue. They are publishing what the school boards ask them to publish and happy to take the money. Some of these books even teach children that Moses was a Founding Father of the Declaration of Independence. They are just vulgar liars for Jesus.
When my nephew was nine he was given a list of words to put into sentences for his homework (in Georgia). One of the words was “Exodus”. He wrote that “Exodus is a really good album by Bob Marley”. My man as Denzel would say 🙂August 12, 2018 at 12:20 am #10799
Of course it is child abuse; but so is any kind of serious religious indoctrination that occurs prior to age of reason.
It is literally a MINDFUCK…a fuck that keeps giving and giving and taking away what might otherwise emerge.August 12, 2018 at 1:54 pm #10811August 14, 2018 at 1:13 pm #10865
May I ask this: If many of you have read much of the Darwin Refuted website, then how is it logical and scientific to continue to support and believe it any kind of evolution?? It simply isn’t possible given the nature of the cell, mutations, etc. etc.
Most, not all, over the past 180 plus years wanted to believe in evolution otherwise they had no logical reason to not believe in the Eternal God who created all things visible and invisible. Again, this natural inclination to not want to be told what to do (even if it is for your own benefit!); just as a good parent tells his children- don’t play in the street, don’t touch the iron or stove, etc. etc. A good parent disciplines their children primarily because we love them and want them to succeed in the world in which we find ourselves.
One of you adroitly stated that okay Earle- let’s leave out evolution. Prove there is a god. That’s a start. Most of what I read here is questions and cogent answers. Who among us knows everything we want to know? I sure don’t but I’m willing to be led by double-blind science studies, and the Spirit of God, and the mind he gave me.
One question then: do you think/believe there is an unseen world/spirit world? If not, why not? You can’t see gamma rays without help, can’t see sonar without help, we only see a segment of the colors and hues out there.
And if you do think/believe there is an unseen/spirit world? What are the spirits like? Do you know, do you care?August 14, 2018 at 2:17 pm #10866
May I ask this: If many of you have read much of the Darwin Refuted website, then how is it logical and scientific to continue to support and believe it any kind of evolution??
I have read it and many sites like it. It is not scientific. As already mentioned, the paragraph discussing “Mutations” shows that the author has no understanding of what the word means in the genetic sense.
We don’t “believe in” Evolution. It is not a matter of faith. We understand Evolution to be a true reflection of reality. It is 100% proven by many different disciplines. Evolution is a Fact, just like plant photosynthesis is a fact.
Whether Evolution is true or not has nothing to do with the existence of any god. It just negates the Genesis account as not being an actual account of reality, i.e. it cannot be taken literally. This upsets Evangelical Christians and Muslims alike because it does not sit with their worldview.
Who among us knows everything we want to know?
Nobody here does. We are open to learning new things. But you are claiming you already know the truth. Why do you say you “sure don’t” when you believe your god is the answer to everything. I mean don’t you already believe that your god is the Creator of the Universe and everything in it, including us humans?
One question then: do you think/believe there is an unseen world/spirit world?
The unseen world and the spirit world are not one and the same. One is natural, the other supernatural.
I agree that there is an unseen world. Reality at the subatomic level is so different that it challenges our understanding of the world we live in. Read a book called “Reality is not what is seems” by Carlo Rovelli for more. But we have evidence for this unseen world and we are developing tools to further investigate these worlds. As it is part of the natural make up of reality we will discover more.
But I do not think or believe that there is a spirit world. I see no evidence for one existing and I know of no way to investigate such things. There is no evidence for any of it. It would all exist in the supernatural realm, if such a thing existed and it could only be investigated using supernatural methods. I know of none. Do you?
If you have evidence for God we would love to hear it. We are not closed to hearing it. I will become a Christian if you have “good evidence”. Maybe others here will too. I will even start a post for you if you wish. Please bear in mind from the start that the Bible is the claim for, but not the proof of your god. For now please just supply evidence that is separate from the Bible.August 14, 2018 at 7:00 pm #10868
@davis – I don’t get what you mean.
@earlesanborn – “Most, not all, over the past 180 plus years wanted to believe in evolution otherwise they had no logical reason to not believe in the Eternal God who created all things visible and invisible.”
– I don’t think the two have to be mutually incompatible. I would have thought, if you don’t engage with science, then your God is sold short. The glory of science is a wondrous thing to behold in itself. If God made science – or at least, the regular natural world, as approximated by science – nobody can really say much different.August 14, 2018 at 7:32 pm #10869
Obviously, I was unclear to some. It has been a goal of many a man to not be ruled by any “god” real or imagined.
And that is the key- man hates to be ruled- you see it every day: your children rebel, we skirt laws, we offer explanations or excuses for not following laws and rules. Pink Floyd’s Mother is an example- shall I run for president- YES; mother shall I trust the government-NO; okay so when that guy becomes President and in the government; others will say the same thing about him that he did about those before him.
So when Darwin and others penned the theory of evolution (essentially saying life has always existed and remains without a first cause of creation–which would demand a creator) which would free man from other men’s ridiculous theories, philosophies and religions. We all know now that life had a beginning as astrophysics and astronomy tell us.
Unfortunately we also know in 2018 that: survival of the fittest, variations within species, mutations, fossil record have no path to evolution and quite the contrary the evidence shows that species arise suddenly, fully-intact. There are no billions of “transitional fossils” or they would be on display.
It’s more of a question than a statement.
So why do so many (supposedly smart, enlightened folks) still believe in Evolution as a basis for their world view? Why do people believe in Santa Claus/Christmas (the Saturnalia) and Easter (Astarte) they have nothing to do with God. One goal in life I have and had is find truth about who and what we are, and why?
One would think that with our ever growing knowledge of the world we live in- that there would be more gratefulness about life; gratefulness for our being and hearts and minds.
RegardsAugust 14, 2018 at 8:10 pm #10870
Really interesting discussion here, enjoying all the input from both sides.
- One thing I would like to ask Mr Earl Sanborn is how do the people who believe in God explain the problem of evil in the world.
- Both evil caused by man and also natural disasters?
- I’ve done some basic reading on it like some of Alvin Plantinga stuff,
- And Peter Vardy’s stuff like his book the Puzzle of evil.
ThanksAugust 14, 2018 at 9:19 pm #10872
@earlesanborn – “essentially saying life has always existed and remains without a first cause of creation–which would demand a creator”
– you’re mistaken – Darwin never said this. The origin of life remains something of a scientific mystery today.
“There are no billions of “transitional fossils” or they would be on display.”
– if new species arise as a result of relatively sudden changes in the environment – and given the paucity of the fossil record – then this is not a surprise.
“So why do so many (supposedly smart, enlightened folks) still believe in Evolution as a basis for their world view?”
– because it has great explanatory power, for one reason. If you use evolutionary logic when answering questions about the natural world, then you can learn a lot.August 14, 2018 at 9:29 pm #10873
Never said Darwin said that. Many have stated that in the past, but modern science clearly shows there was a beginning to the physical world– radio isotopes and decaying matter.
So a bad theory – evolution- which many even evolutionary scientist admit now days has real problems due to the advancement in scientific knowledge in the past 200 years– can be used “because it has great explanatory power, for one reason”. I’m sorry Simon, but evolutionary logic has no real relevance to the natural world because Evolution is not based on science any more. It’s akin to saying “spontaneous generation theory” has so great explanatory power. Really, a long documented, and debunked theory can explain the natural world.
That doesn’t ring a good bell Simon. In accounting parlance, that transaction doesn’t pass the “smell” test.August 14, 2018 at 10:10 pm #10876
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