America's Second Civil War

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Kristina 3 weeks, 2 days ago.

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  • #34023

    Unseen
    Participant

    I think we may be head for CW2 especially if Trump loses, but also if he wins, because then those who support him will feel emboldened.

    Trump has exacerbated largely dormant resentments of noncollege-educated whites and radical conservatives. The radical conservatives include a lot of police and ex-military folk plus evangelical Christians. This group may not be the majority, but they are armed.

    If it happens, there will be no traditional battlefields where army A fights army B. It will be asymmetrical. While the government has uniformed troops, the opposition will look ordinary citizens and will conduct hit and run attacks as well as terror attacks on various scales.

    The flames of rebellion will be fanned by Trump’s talent for being on TV, by Fox TV being Fox TV, and by Russian/Chinese/Iranian rumor mongering on social media.

    Finally, let’s be clear that Trump is more a symptom than a cause and that the left also has played a part in bringing us to the brink of war.

    The left got, as the expression goes, ahead of their skis, and fed racial resentments in the process of seeking equal justice for all.

    When I say “racial,” I don’t mean it in the usual sense of believing a race is inferior or not to be trusted. Much of the resentment by the noncollege-educated middle class is really against the government. They see the government giving a helping hand through affirmative action to racial and ethnic minorities in ways they feel places them at a disadvantage. They feel passed over for places at the table by people they feel, rightly or wrongly, are less deserving to be receiving governmental favor. And I say it’s not traditional racism because often they work shoulder to shoulder with black and Hispanics, go to each other’s backyard barbecues, and even live on the same block. Their gripe is with the government picking winners and losers, as they see it.

    But, to be sure, some of it comes down to good old fashioned “they look different” tribal racism. Most white Americans know people like that, but they are a distinct minority among the disaffected.

    If we want to head off CW2 or put out its fires if it starts, we need as a society to think our way out of this dilemma.

    • This topic was modified 1 month ago by  Unseen.
    #34054

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    A very good way of heading off Civl War II is to study just how horrible the first one was.

    Before anybody, whether Antifa, Proud Boi, Boog Boi or Black Panther, starts talking seriously about Civil War II in the U.S.A., they need to give this podcast a good hard listen:

    War Stuff: Struggle Between Armies and Civilians During the American Civil War
    https://www.southcarolinapublicradio.org/post/war-stuff-struggle-between-armies-and-civilians-during-american-civil-war-0

    Here, historians Walter Edgar and Joan E. Cashin discuss her book War Stuff: The Struggle for Human and Environmental Resources in the American Civil War.

    Basically, armies of both the Stars and Stripes and the Stars and Bars plundered not only from civilians from the opposite side, but from civilians that sided with them.

    They plundered, degraded, and destroyed everything from forests, crops, food, livestock, houses on up to kidnapping civilian lives to use for labor or ransom, and inflicting untold abuse in the interim.

    Also, not covered in the book, both sides commandeered forced labor from those enslaved before the Civil War started.  Truly, there were no angels on either side, no matter what school texts teach.

    As the author notes, real civil war is not an app to be picked up and played. It is a threat to all that will consume all.

    If anybody on any side wants me, they’ll have to come to get me. I’m not making it easy for them.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling. Phone keys and meaty fingers don't do well
    #34057

    Unseen
    Participant

    A very good way of heading off Civl War II is to study just how horrible the first one was.

    CW2 won’t be anything like CW1. It’ll be like gang skirmishes, It’ll involve kidnappings and assassinations. Attacks on businesses run by “enemy” owners.

    #34058

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    I just heard a description of Trump, and laughed: Unfettered by Facts.

    I don’t believe that even the most rabid “law-and-order” enforcers and politicians, other than Trump himself and a few small groups, would accept “CW2” as an option. The death and destruction of CW1 was not ignited by just a spontaneous, twitter-run flame-fest kind of explosion of sentiments. It took one or more generations, and numerous, waring state powers to make it happen. I think it would take huge acts of terrorism to make people go officially to war with each other.

    #34059

    Unseen
    Participant

    I just heard a description of Trump, and laughed: Unfettered by Facts. I don’t believe that even the most rabid “law-and-order” enforcers and politicians, other than Trump himself and a few small groups, would accept “CW2” as an option. The death and destruction of CW1 was not ignited by just a spontaneous, twitter-run flame-fest kind of explosion of sentiments. It took one or more generations, and numerous, waring state powers to make it happen. I think it would take huge acts of terrorism to make people go officially to war with each other.

    The civil war wouldn’t involve vast numbers of ordinary citizens arming themselves and going out to fight. It would involve hostile factions in frequent skirmishes. Kidnappings, assassinations, kangaroo courts, focused and general terrorism, and American soldiers on the streets trying to keep order under a declared national emergency, which in many ways will further inflame the right.

    Given the quantity of guns in American society, there will be a lot of collateral damage.

    As polarized as we are now, a civil war is unlikely to do anything but exacerbate that.

     

    The right has this delusional nightmare that the left will turn America into something like a post-Revolution Stalinist Russia with a ruined economy and forced reeducation of anyone to their right,

     

    #34060

    Unseen
    Participant

    Most of us on the left don’t stay in touch with the right, especially the right that is beyond mere conservatism.

    What a Second Civil War Could Look Like

    #34064

    That vision of CW2 is a very right wing alarmist view 🙂

    #34066

    Unseen
    Participant

    I have an online acquaintance that collects guns, often puts up videos of robbers and home invaders being shot to death, has dozens of guns, and is an ex-Navy SEAL who I’m sure would love to go out and start shooting AntiFas and even BLMers. He thinks the left is ruining America.

    #34067

    America is going to reveal much of its true self to the rest of the world over the next few days.  Project Blitz has been a success for the Evangelicals. With ACB confirmed on SCOTUS maybe some Christians will think “OK, we got what we want and no longer need Trump” and therefore vote for Biden. Its “squeaky bum time” now. Good Luck!

    #34068

    jakelafort
    Participant

    You see our true colors…that is why i love you…so don’t be afraid…

    Sure hope we are wearing dark underwear.

    #34074

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    CW2 won’t be anything like CW1. It’ll be like gang skirmishes, It’ll involve kidnappings and assassinations. Attacks on businesses run by “enemy” owners.

    And, as the historians in the podcast above pointed out, all of those things happened from all sides of Civil War I, including the asymmeteric warfare you mentioned elsewhere on the thread.  And Civil War I was the bloodiest conflict this nation was involved in with pretty low tech.  A Civil War II with the technology of today could easily dwarf Civil War I.

    #34077

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    If these lists are any evidence, I don’t think this nation has had a moment’s peace from it’s very beginning, both within and outside its ever-changing borders:

    List of Armed Conflicts Involving the United States–Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_conflicts_involving_the_United_States

    Lists of Conflicts in the United States–Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_the_United_States

    Hence, while Townhall may have a Conservative bias, it may not be wrong on the possibility of a Civil War II.

    #34083

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen,

    CW2 won’t be anything like CW1. It’ll be like gang skirmishes, It’ll involve kidnappings and assassinations. Attacks on businesses run by “enemy” owners.

    And, as the historians in the podcast above pointed out, all of those things happened from all sides of Civil War I, including the asymmeteric warfare you mentioned elsewhere on the thread. And Civil War I was the bloodiest conflict this nation was involved in with pretty low tech. A Civil War II with the technology of today could easily dwarf Civil War I.

    I don’t think anyone is predicting battlefield warfare as we saw in CW1. What are you talking about as far as the technology today? I can’t imagine what weapons of today either side could justify using that would kill vast numbers of people. Bombers? Tactical nukes? Really?

    I don’t see it going much beyond rifles and maybe IEDs as far as weaponry.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Unseen.
    #34085

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Damn modern technology and population integration!

    I get so nostalgic for the old time religion.

    #34086

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    I don’t think anyone is predicting battlefield warfare as we saw in CW1. What are you talking about as far as the technology today? I can’t imagine what weapons of today either side could justify using that would kill vast numbers of people. Bombers? Tactical nukes? Really?

    I don’t see it going much beyond rifles and maybe IEDs as far as weaponry.

    If people see “the Other” as not just different or mistaken, but evil, or not even human, and if people see conflict in Manechean terms where there are no innocents or neutrals, then all the stops are pulled out.

    Anything from a pair of scissors to NBC weapons could get used with all bystanders as fair game.  And the aggressors wouldn’t first justify their deeds at an Oxford Forum or in a TedTalk, they’d just do it.  The forensic journalists and historians would piece things together later, if they lived to tell the tale.

    This is part of what makes intra-group Civil Wars the ugliest, and the people involved usually aren’t that different.

     

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