Did the CDC f*ck up?

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This topic contains 27 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 9 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 28 total)
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  • #41240

    Unseen
    Participant

    #41241

    _Robert_
    Participant

    When you consider at least a million Americans are dead that is like 333 World Trade Center attacks.  Look what we did and spent to stay safe after that one day and now as the 333rd world trade center is going down we can’t be bothered to wear a fucking mask to help keep immunocompromised Americans safe. Turns out Maher is a prick after all.

    #41242

    Unseen
    Participant

    When you consider at least a million Americans are dead that is like 333 World Trade Center attacks. Look what we did and spent to stay safe after that one day and now as the 333rd world trade center is going down we can’t be bothered to wear a fucking mask to help keep immunocompromised Americans safe. Turns out Maher is a prick after all.

    Does calling Maher a “prick” constitute a rebuttal nowadays? Sounds like you’d like to muzzle him(?). Plays into the left drifting into authoritarianism critique.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #41244

    Unseen
    Participant

    The latest “wisdom” from the CDC is that we should be wearing actual (not counterefeit) N95 masks because cloth masks are simply ineffectual.

    The problem is that I can’t just go out and buy an N95 and, worse, am not competent for detecting counterfeits. Plus, when you do find them, they are prohibitively expensive, so they can’t be used by many of those who would benefit from them.

    #41245

    Autumn
    Participant

    When you consider at least a million Americans are dead that is like 333 World Trade Center attacks. Look what we did and spent to stay safe after that one day and now as the 333rd world trade center is going down we can’t be bothered to wear a fucking mask to help keep immunocompromised Americans safe. Turns out Maher is a prick after all.

    Does calling Maher a “prick” constitute a rebuttal nowadays? Sounds like you’d like to muzzle him(?). Plays into the left drifting into authoritarianism critique.

    It doesn’t sound like that at all. Is this parody or something?

    #41246

    Unseen
    Participant

    Does calling Maher a “prick” constitute a rebuttal nowadays? Sounds like you’d like to muzzle him(?). Plays into the left drifting into authoritarianism critique.

    Does calling Maher a “prick” constitute a rebuttal nowadays? Sounds like you’d like to muzzle him(?). Plays into the left drifting into authoritarianism critique.

    It doesn’t sound like that at all.

    Is this parody or something?

    Is there an argument in there somewhere?

     

    #41247

    Autumn
    Participant

    When you consider at least a million Americans are dead that is like 333 World Trade Center attacks. Look what we did and spent to stay safe after that one day and now as the 333rd world trade center is going down we can’t be bothered to wear a fucking mask to help keep immunocompromised Americans safe.

    We can definitely see a big divide in mindsets amongst the population. Some people can’t seem to get their head around the idea that a virus won’t conform itself to our sense of order. If the virus behaves in a way that defies the way we live our lives, it seems we can accept that interruption to a point, but once we feel we’ve adequately sacrificed, then we’re owed some sort of result. And if we don’t get that result in a way that makes sense to us? Well then fuck it all, I guess?

    When covid first hit in Canada, many jurisdictions took some pretty drastic steps to severely reduce transmission vectors. Many people abided by the restrictions both voluntarily and involuntarily. But those actions upset how we run our economy. And Canadians seem to struggle with the idea that we should ever rethink how we’d run our economy. Even if we had the resources and infrastructure to provide for the population, we lacked the mindset to do so in a way that differed from how we’d customarily do trade. And the longer that went on, the more unsettled people became for a whole host of reasons. The predominate concerns were the virus and the idea that people needed to go back to work. And these concerns were placed in direct opposition quite frequently.

    From that point on, health policy has been a strange mix of half measures so as to act like we are doing something while trying to limit the disquiet that our status quo might get derailed too much. It’s been this bizarre balancing act of managing expectations, but between the virus and the way of life to which we were accustomed, something had to give. And there’s a pretty wide gamut of views on that.

    #41248

    Unseen
    Participant

    Occasionally, I have to remind folks, you will likely not know my view. I create controversial posts to stimulate interesting discussions. Some people respond in the spirit of the OP, some argue dishonestly with ad hominems and beside-the-point distractions.

    Still, in the interest of promoting debate I’ll adopt positions I know will be controversial and I will defend them as vigorously as I can.

    #41249

    Unseen
    Participant

    One common criticism of the  CDC is that it is ONLY concerned with epidemiology and gives little consideration to things like child development, child nutrition for those kids for whom a school lunch was a big part of their daily meal plan, or the psychological and physical abuse kids suffer at the hands of frustrated parents who may be angry about losing work and income.

    This criticism seems to be obviously true.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #41251

    Unseen
    Participant

    Occasionally, I have to remind folks, you will likely not know my view. I create controversial posts to stimulate interesting discussions. Some people respond in the spirit of the OP, some argue dishonestly with ad hominems and beside-the-point distractions. Still, in the interest of promoting debate I’ll adopt positions I know will be controversial and I will defend them as vigorously as I can.

    Just remember to attack the arguments not the person offering them.

    #41252

    _Robert_
    Participant

    There is nothing to talk about. If you are gonna argue that a properly fitted N-95 mask doesn’t help curb transmission, then you are just an idiot. Given that Maher is not an idiot and wants to argue that wearing a mask is somehow a political/freedom issue or that the pandemic is not really “that bad”, then he is a careless prick. I have watched him belittle mask wearing almost every week. It cramps his super star lifestyle.

    I think what it took to defeat fascism. The sacrifices those people made and look at Americans now.

    #41253

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Some people respond in the spirit of the OP, some argue dishonestly with ad hominems and beside-the-point distractions.

    In this case, I agree, Maher’s being a prick. In a land full of pricks now, accelerated by an incompetent prick that was in the White House, and political pricks around the country (and the world, even in Canada) who are more concerned with political power than in bringing their country together. And the people who are so readily activated by prick politics, and controversy-hawking media and social media clickbaiting.

    Sure, the CDC has made mistakes, starting way back when not recommending masks soon enough. And when the conspiracy theories kicked in with politicians and DJ McNasty smelling opportunity, it was a big ball of shit rolling downhill from there, picking up more and more shit.

    CDC still has messaging challenges that it’s not solving quickly enough. I don’t think Fauci ever said cloth mask don’t work. When there weren’t enough masks for frontline medical personnel, it took long-term, overloaded ICUs and climbing death rates for McNasty and his clan to kick fed butt and industry to ramp up domestic mask and PEP production. For fuck’s sake, remember semi-trailers for morgues? Trust in government ability to come up with and coordinate solutions kept falling while other fake news was pushed to distract people, like getting the “China leaked it from their lab” hysteria, and blaming researchers who were trying to pre-emptively discover and mitigate sources of Covid, which began way before SARS Covid19, even including MERS during the previous decade. Making scientific research itself the evil guys making us sick.

    The past two years have been soooo twisted, I’m just tired of politicians and media pushing and selling outrage as  profit centers, including (in this case) Maher. Coincidentally, about a week ago or so I decided to get over my hate of Trump, partly because the drift to authoritarianism is not just a USA thing. Rather than just blaming Trump, which also alienates his followers against us even more than they already think of us as enemies, I’ve decided to think of these recent failures to come together and work together as a serious flaw in human nature, not just in the more reactionary side(s) of the political spectrum, that needs more effective approaches to respectful, effective communication.

    People were wrong to believe that vaccinations stop the spread of infections, but their effectiveness is huge when it comes to keeping people out of ICU, and saving lives. In my opinion, CDC messaging is still weak here. And cloth masks work somewhat, while governments and health agencies should be helping people find better masks, and should be helping distribute the better masks to people who need improved access to them.

    Maher’s not the worst, hateful prick, but he’s not trying very hard to settle fellow human beings down to have pow wows. He should be stepping up by now, along with a lot of other commentators. These issues are increasingly existential in nature.

    #41254

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Sorry for the negativity there. I plan to overcome it, in spite of pervasive negativity. Back to the topic, regarding CDC, yes, they have major weaknesses. But the Trump era nastiness and revolt against trusting in federal agencies and against unifying states’ effectiveness in fighting the pandemic did not help, either. Science even became the bad guy that should be silenced, with finger pointing at CDC, NIH, WHO, and other institutions charged with focussing on pandemic prevention for decades. Villainizing and defunding Peter Daszak’s research was, in my opinion, one of most dastardly acts of all in the politicization of Covid.

    I’m asking myself “How do we fix these deficiencies, make improvements to research, policies, personnel, and whatever, because more pandemics are inevitable”. This kind of project is much bigger than the CDC alone. Following is a documented example of Peter Daszak’s work, in this case on fighting the Nipah virus that has devastating pandemic potential:

    ( @jakelafort, I’m giving you a nod here in your case against carnivory.)

    #41255

    Unseen
    Participant

    CNN is an obvious left-of-center “news” source, and they are among those on the left who in true authoritarian fashion want to poison the well when it comes to Joe Rogan, who is actually also a leftist, just far more open to questioning authority (the CDC, for example) than the likes of CNN, MSNBC, the NY Times, the Washington Post, etc.

    Breaking Points is a Youtube news show hosted by two people, one conservative and one liberal, and here’s their take on Joe Rogan and his supposed right-wingedness, which is actually not toeing the groupthink line when it comes to Covid:

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #41257

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen and Fellow Unbelievers,

    To answer your question, when hasn’t the CDC, the WHO, the FDA, the Presidents Trump and Biden, all the Governors and Big City Mayors, and all leveles of Government everywhere fucked up on COVID-19?

    The only happy note is that the U.S. never got as bad as Red China, North Korea, and The Phillipines under Duterte. They enforced their COVID-19 lockdowns by jailing and murdering people.

    But in other ways, the response to COVID-19 has been terrible. Maylasia, the supply for 65% of the world’s condoms, shut down it’s condom factories in response to COVID-19. So, is it right to stop the spread of COVID-19 by furthering the spread of syphillis, gonorrhea, herpes, and HIV/AIDS, as well as all the problems created by unwanted pregnancies that get born and grow up and get unoeashed on the world?

    And here at home, the CDC, WHO, and FDA couldn’t agree on the efficacy of masks, which masks to use, how many masks, where to use masks, and Fauchi lied about the necessity of masks while government hoarded masks.

    Governors also banned “price-gouging,” which is the worst thing to do in a crisis because it means needed supplies get bought up and stores get stripped bare. If merchants were free to charge what they want, people don’t panic-buy, they buy just what’s needed, then factories rev up production more, product hecomes more plentiful, stores compete, and prices come back down.

    The crisis also showed how the FDA is a barrier to medical progress. COVID-19 tests in the U.S. cost over $20 a piece but tests from the same company cost just $3 abroad and it’s because of the approval process, as well as import controls and duties. Cheaper tests could have meant early detection, followed by reasonable steps to separate those most at risk without destroying whole economies.

    And if the vaccine went through normal FDA protocols, it would have taken 10 years and Hundreds of Millions of $Dollars to get approval, during which time millions could have died. Be glad we didn’t go that route.

    And these vaccine cards they issued are a sick joke. All paper, no watermarks, no photo, no computer strip or chip, no lamination, just begging to be photoshopped and copied on any desktop printer…and they got copied too, creating a whole new fake ID black market.

    None of this is a product of science. Science is evidence-based and shows it’s homework. Studying the past along with a little a priori logic would have told anyone that all this mess would be the end result.

    And just think: All this, and people still want government to run health care.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling and an addendum on imports
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