Do you know RFK jr.'s actual view on vaccines? Probably not.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Scum rises to the top in USA politics. Ya wanna hear a little discussion about RFK?

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/making-sense-with-sam-harris-82382/episodes/325-a-few-thoughts-about-rfk-j-177680862

[PopeBeanieModerator]

I meant to post this one too, it is a good podcast episode. It’s only 27 minutes long, y’all.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Funny Pope cuz i meant to say it is only 27 minutes. Yay for onset of dementia!

[_Robert_Participant]

Thanks for that. Sam pretty much says what I expected and agree with.

[UnseenParticipant]

I finished listening to Sam Harris and he makes the case against RFK Jr quite well. At the same time, I’m not as blasé as he seems to be to sweep the First Amendment aside in RFK Jr’s case, doing so seemingly on the idea that RFK prevents the degree of conformity needed to fight the pandemic by achieving so-called “herd immunity.”

I see a danger in the fickle finger of government or one of its agencies, of the academic intelligentsia, of the politicians, or of any other power center dictating or directing social conformity.

We are suckers for arguments based on saving lives but saving lives isn’t the only value to be considered. Independence and independent (free) thinking is a value as well.

We seem to be questioning not only our commitment to the First Amendment but also our belief in the value of the dialectic of ideas. The notion that free and open debate homes in on a more accurate belief and sweeps aside nonsense.

I first noticed this tendency to hinder debate in the interest of conformity in the runup to the 2020 election where the Democratic Party (MY party most of the time) subverted the candidacies of Bernie Sanders and Andrew Yang, doing so with the obvious cooperation of the supposedly “liberal” media, who gave both candidates insufficient coverage in order to ensure a Biden nomination. I remember CNN putting up a graphic of Democrat nominees that actually left Yang off even though he was polling higher than two of those running for the office. They stiff-armed Tulsi Gabbard as well.

RFK Jr is wrong, but is that sufficient reason to try to make sure no one hears him? In the meantime, Donald Trump, Marjorie Taylor Green, Ron DiSantis, and many others with dangerous ideas get heard every day, even on liberal CNN, MSNBC, Fox, and the rest of the mainstream media. Somebody somewhere is deciding who we get to hear and who we don’t.

What follows is an interesting interview with Richard Dawkins where he discusses vaccine denialism at around 4:30. He says that getting the jab may not be the altruistic act it originally was depicted as being.

Later on, at about 25:00, he also has interesting thoughts on the trans phenomenon. He’s a hardliner when it comes to gender, denying that it’s a spectrum saying “It’s one of the few true binaries we have in biology.” He objects to talking about biological men as women and being forced to use certain pronouns because of the damage this does to the language.

[_Robert_Participant]

So Unseen, if the latest strains of Covid comes back with a vengeance this fall/winter, are you gonna get “the jab” now that you have “done your own research”, lol? Or are you gonna choke and croak on us? I hope not.

[_Robert_Participant]

I wonder if RFK Jr ever ponders about the millions (probably billions if you include offspring) of lives spared by the eradication of smallpox, polio, measles, etc. When was the last time a million Americans died in about a year’s time? Answer: Never.

As we speak, new malaria vaccines are game changers in Africa. Of course, now we are seeing locally acquired cases of malaria in Texas and Florida. Yey! Still a long way to go, for sure.

Perhaps the best thing that Kennedy guy could do for humanity is die of Covid or something, LOL. Pathetic how Americans are great at voting for idiotic celebrities and name recognition.

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

So Unseen, if the latest strains of Covid comes back with a vengeance this fall/winter, are you gonna get “the jab” now that you have “done your own research”, lol? Or are you gonna choke and croak on us? I hope not.

I’m your friendly neighborhood “good troll” who starts controversial discussions because, unlike many, it seems, I actually do believe in the First Amendment and that the truth benefits from free and open discussion.

BTW, I’m vaccinated and boosted.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

Dawkins extolled the virtues of vaccination writ large but says there appear to be valid doubts about the benefit of Covid vaccine full compliance.

Full compliance demands a degree of conformity that simply ain’t a gunna happen in the U.S., so get used to it. We are not a nation of conformists.

It’s one thing to enforce compliance in a school district run by a local government and when getting vaccinated is the majority choice. It’s something else entirely to try to do the same on the national level by a Federal Government full of politicians who want to win the next election so they can keep lining their pockets.

Would you prefer to do it the way the Chinese did it, perhaps?

[UnseenParticipant]

This was written around three years ago, but now reads as prophecy:

Some leaders are calling for an end to stay-at-home orders to save the economy, while public health experts argue this will result in a surge of COVID deaths. The implication is that we have to choose between a financial crisis and a public health crisis, and that lives are more important than money. But economic crises are public health crises. Unemployment, lack of education, poverty, and homelessness kill people, too.

These factors, known as the social determinants of health, worsen mental and physical health, and increase mortality. But they kill people much more slowly than an infectious virus, and in quiet coordination with other factors; they’re rarely named as a direct cause of death. It’s understandable that we push them out of our minds when faced with a more immediate and identifiable foe.

Lack of education is one such killer. (continue reading here)

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Robert- unfortunately it is not just malaria but also leprosy that is possibly endemic in Florida!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

The number of infections is on the rise again as “summer covid” cases are being diagnosed around the world. It will be interesting to see how people react this time. Will they mask up or get a vaccine or a booster? Will they all attend RFK rallies without masks? I sometimes wear a mask if I have to shop in a busy store. Recently some guy started to verbal abuse me for doing so. I removed my mask long enough to tell him to FUCK OFF. He did. A group of morons told me “that was unnecessary” so I told them to “fuck off even faster”. I am not going to tolerate any of them this time around.

Sorry to hear about you dealing with assholes in the store. Lots of ignorant idiots don’t understand that some people with non-COVID-19 allergies and breathing conditions have to use masks and that they were and are ubiquitous in Japan and elsewhere.

As for myself and my sit-rep, I have been in the hospital 3 times since November 2021, twice this year and just got out last week for treatment for Rhabdomyolysis. Each time, I volunteered to show my double-vaxxed, double-boosted CDC COVID-19 vaccine card and no one required it. No masks were ever required of me nor did any but a couple of Nurses wear masks in their interactions with me.

Barring the off-chance that the MD Muthahs ⚕️👨‍⚕️👩‍⚕️ are prey to Misinformation/Disinformation/Malinformation (MDM *Growl!* 🦁), the COVID-19 situation in my locality appears under control. While open to evidence and changing conditions, I’m not worried for myself or neighbors. Homage of Reason, not blindfolded fear.

[UnseenParticipant]

A bit of a follow up to my post just above. Covid restrictions bear some resemblance to the fossil fuels vs nuclear power debate.

The public sees nuclear as dangerous because when it goes bad, it causes a lot of headline-making death and suffering over a short period whereas fossil fuels kill more people over time but do so in a quiet, constant way.

Covid is like a nuclear disaster whereas the pandemic restrictions probably do more damage over time than the disease itself.

[UnseenParticipant]

Everything RFK Jr gets wrong about Israel and the Jews.

[Author]

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