Roeing Away…

[Belle RoseParticipant]

Wondering if you all think Roe v. Wade is actually going to be overturned? There’s a LOT of focus on that right now….

What do you think the resulting consequences both short and long term will be?

[_Robert_Participant]

The SCOTUS has obviously become politized. Of course, the wealthy “religious” can afford to send their teenage daughters somewhere to have safe and secret procedures done.

[jakelafortParticipant]

The SCOTUS has obviously become politized.

Twas ever thus. Read a bunch of decisions and it is readily apparent that idealistic notions of jurisprudence are nonsense. The end-product is largely a reflection of the power structure.

Roe v Wade has been chipped away since the momentous publication. See the swirl of the descending toilet water…

[Belle RoseParticipant]

Well from everything I’ve been reading it looks like it’s probably going to be overturned. As soon as my child graduates high school I am moving to Mexico.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  Belle Rose.

[—Participant]

Belle Rose wrote:

Well from everything I’ve been reading it looks like it’s probably going to be overturned. As soon as my child graduates high school I am moving to Mexico.

It feels like your nation is really splitting in half. I mean, don’t get me wrong, we have plenty of messed up stuff up here in Canada, but there looking at the US, every day I cross off states where I just wouldn’t bother going due to all the laws being introduced enshrining archaic values. I feel like you all are going to have to have internal refugee claims from people fleeing one state to another.

[DavisModerator]

I’d definitely say that the US is unique in some ways in Western countries for the following reasons:

1. States have incredible power over laws including the regulation of abortion which is a federal jurisdiction in almost all other Western countries. This will inevitably lead to a sort of: can get abortion, students can learn about slavery, laws that protect marginalised groups North and the inverse South. I am not aware of any other Western country where things are that extreme (regional variation yes, such a stark difference…no).

2. The opposite of the trend of Western countries where the death penalty, abortion, hate speech laws, minimal social programs, healthcare are relatively uncontroversial (controversy is mainly about just how strong those regulations are or funded)

[UnseenParticipant]

The Democrats may soon be dancing on Roe v. Wade’s grave.

Before I get going on the heart of my message here, I want to note that if the reasoning in the leaked draft decision prevails, which is that there are no rights not specified in the Constitution, this goes way beyond abortion and threatens other rights as well:

The right to privacy.
The right to contraception.
Same sex marriage and other LGBTQ rights.

Let me explain my first sentence above. Midterm elections are traditionally bad news for the party in power, and the Dems are currently hanging onto power by their fingernails. Things have been looking particularly dim for the Dems in November, but this leak, and if it’s followed up by a decision along those lines, handing abortion rights 100% over to the states, the Supreme Court may hand the Dems an unexpectedly timely lifeline.

This is a gift, because abortion is an issue that the suburban woman, who tends to vote, cares about. It’s a rights issue, which may temporarily take their minds off inflation. If the Dems make it clear they are pro-choice and are going to fight for a woman’s right to abortion, it coulf nudge them toward the Dems.

American elections tend to be close. It doesn’t take a landslide to change things. Actually, 2%, 5%, 7% can determine how things swing, so the Dems have a golden opportunity if the Supremes come down hard on abortion, and especially if they are clear on what it might mean for other rights we all thought we had.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Belle Rose,

Are you sure about that? Mexico is a civil war zone, with fighting between the long corrupt Government and the drug gang Cartels. In some areas, the Cartels are better armed than the Government. Even Naturalized Mexican Citizens have fewer rights than Natural-Born Mexican Citizens. And have you happened to notice how the itenerary between Mexico and the U.S. tends to run?

The old marriage chestnut comes to mind here: Don’t go to bed mad. Stay up and fight!

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Maybe one result of overturning Roe v. Wade will be a new-found respect for the Ninth Amendment, which holds that an Individual Right does not have to be enumerated in order to exist.

Throughout our history, the Ninth Amendment was regarded, as Robert Bork put it, as “an inkblot.” It really should have been the basis for abolishing slavery and Jim Crow from the get-go and it could have saved at least 600,000 lives from Civil War.

In the meantime, there will probably crop up networks of people to transport women across State lines from anti-abortion jurisdictions to pro-choice jurisdictions. States do not have control over Interstate travel or commerce and any attempt to impose such control will most likely be struck down.

Also, control of abortion will be very hard with things like “Plan B” distributed over-the-counter and via telemedicine and pharmacy delivery and pick-up service.

The land of “The Underground Railroad,” Pŕohibition-Era “Speakeasies,” “grow-your-own-stone” UV lights in the basement, and a billion pieces of privately-owned small arms will be very hard to turn into a Handmaid’s Tale Republic of Gilead.

As always, “must wait and see…”

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: HTML code correction

[Belle RoseParticipant]

@Enco

Are you sure about that? Mexico is a civil war zone, with fighting between the long corrupt Government and the drug gang Cartels.

Have you personally ever BEEN to Mexico? And if so, what part?

[DavisModerator]

Mexico is a civil war zone

That’s the most over the top overgeneralisation you’ve made yet Enco.

[jakelafortParticipant]

If Trump and his supporters prevail maybe we can annex Mexico.

Manifest destiny makes america great again. MDMAGA

[UnseenParticipant]

@Enco

US states could ban people from traveling for abortions, experts warn

A fresh wave of restrictions will probably center around patients who leave their state to obtain legal abortions in other states, or who order medications to manage their abortions at home.

Lawmakers in Missouri weighed legislation early this year that would allow individuals to sue anyone helping a patient cross state lines for an abortion. The law was ultimately blocked in the state’s legislature, but experts expect such legislation to gain more support if Roe is weakened or overturned.

“I think states are not going to rest with just saying ‘there won’t be abortions in our state.’ I think they’re going to want to ban abortion for their citizens as much as they can, which would mean stopping them from traveling,” said David Cohen, professor at Drexel University’s Kline School of Law and lead author of a forthcoming article on cross-state legal issues that could arise in the abortion context.

“We’re going to see state-against-state battles that are really going to divide this country even deeper on this issue,” he said.

If the supreme court overturns abortion protections, such travel bans might also be permitted to stand, Cohen said.

“The supreme court does not have well-developed case law regarding extraterritorial application of state law,” he added in an email. A court that has gone so far as to overturn Roe, he said, “would likely take that unclear precedent in the direction that is most anti-abortion.”

[UnseenParticipant]

@Enco

It beggars the imagination how ignorant you are sometimes.

I have a friend who moved to Mexico, has lived there for three years now, and loves the people and the place.

Yes, Mexico has its problems, but are there daily gunfights and gangland killings everywhere in Mexico? Don’t be absurd.

[DavisModerator]

Mexico definitely has serious problems to deal with. So does the US. I felt safer in Lebanon and Iran than I did in Newark and Detroit. I’d rather walk down the streets of Guadalajara than be a black person in a traffic stop by a US policeman. While Mexico is passing more and more liberal legislation, states are banning the teaching of slavery brutality, abortions, discussing the fact that gay people exist and penalising corporations that disagree with their policies. Despite that, the US is still hardly a “dysfunctional state”. While some Europeans would say it is, I call that a gross overgeneralisation. As is the characterisation of Mexico as a “warzone”. Zheesh

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  Davis.

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