Shooting, Killing, Murder!!!

Homepage Forums Politics Shooting, Killing, Murder!!!

This topic contains 87 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Noel 4 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 76 through 88 (of 88 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #7968

    JadeBlackOlive
    Participant

     

    #7993

    Davis
    Moderator

    When one posited “solution” is to give teachers extra pay to become trained in firearms then you know the problem is not even understood and nowhere near being properly addressed.

    Solid evidence that these people have gone beyond gun-insanity….into “totally losing their brains”. Arming teachers…under the microscopically tiny chance a gunman will come into the classroom and start shooting. When guns are in any house or room, the odds of shootings go up, mostly because of accidents and children getting their hands on it. Having those guns on teachers will likely result in more injuries than they would ever stop (could they stop an average gunman?). They prefer a teacher to have an instrument of death and murder in the classroom than to implement what is very very modest gun control. Brains…where did they go?

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by  Davis.
    #8034

    Davis
    Moderator

    If your home is under assault by a band of bad guys, you’ll wish you had a fully automatic weapon

    No. No I wouldn’t wish it because having a loaded weapon in your house increases the likelihood of someone getting shot, something which usually has nothing to do with a gang of guys entering your house and bringing out  a gun may involve my own family members getting hurt. It’s also telling how gunownership and gun violence appologists think when the only method of self protection they can think of is involving high speed projectile bullets, as though it is “weapons of murder from a distance” or nothing. I would rather use one of the newly developed taser projectiles and have my whole family  (everyone) really well trained in self defense (assuming I lived in a violent place like Detroit or Baltimore)…than to add more guns into the picture…which in any American household means a much much higher likelihood of injury and death.

    Unseen wrote:
    If your home is under assault by a band of bad guys, you’ll wish you had a fully automatic weapon

    And when you find out your grandson has found that box in the closet and got his hands on a defense weapon you own…you’ll wish it is NOT a fully automatic weapon.

    #8035

    JadeBlackOlive
    Participant

     

    #8037

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I think it may look like Americans are crazy with this gun thing. For non US residents, this is what I believe you may not know or have considered.

    Both the major wars fought on our soil were largely fought by militia. The colonists prided themselves on being sharpshooters as did the rag tag Southern rebel army. Then it was off to the wild west with “savages” waiting on every ridge and they were no longer welcoming. Nobody was protecting the settlers but themselves. The exploits of gunslingers and quick draw artists became etched in the memory of every American kid. The settlers hunted to survive and protected themselves in the lawless west.

    Then came the world wars. If you saw Saving Private Ryan you get a rehash of the good-old-boy sniper, plus the basic nature of the US platoon vs the Nazi strategy. The Nazis center themselves around the machine gun, the soldiers with bolt action rifles are protecting that machine gun. The American strategy is based on the individual soldier with his trusty semi-auto M1 rifle.

    The average American does not trust government (a populace that is armed can resist) and many believe that anarchy can be just minutes away at any time. We get so many natural disasters…it often feels that way after a hurricane when desperate looters appear. I have stood watch, believe me.

    I often grab a gun when just wandering around my property, I have shot 6 foot long rattlesnakes. Finally many do use guns to end their suffering as the comedian mentioned,

    So, yeah guns have always been very important to US Citizens for many reasons. I do welcome change, if it makes sense. This may shed some light on why Americans “like guns” as he says.

     

     

     

    #8038

    .
    Spectator

    This backs up what I was saying:

    Nikolas Cruz’s behavior raised red flags over and over, but no one intervened

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/us/nikolas-cruz-warning-signs/index.html

    Just remember who said it first 😉

    #8041

    Davis
    Moderator

    I think it may look like Americans are crazy with this gun thing.

    I don’t think Americans are crazy in this sense. But the average citizen is as deluded as a typical Christian is. Delusion is repeatedly doing the same thing over and over again expecting one result when it is always the other result. The illusion that the general population owning guns…makes society and these people safer. In general, especially in urban areas, this is completely false. The 2nd amendment and other arguments are besides the point. People claim guns make things and their home safe. In general, they do not. That is a delusion, and the consequences are violent deaths.

    Both the major wars fought on our soil were largely fought by militia.

    Same with the Lebanese war, the Bosnian war, the Cuban war and their historic revolutions, occupations and long struggles. And these are all places that are still quite well armed relative to their part of the world. They are all three of them disaster zones. this romantic association with a noble struggle centuries ago and protection against tyranny completely conflicts with with the reality of new rapid fire weapons and easily concealed guns on people on the streets absent of any foreign invader for a very long time. Canada fought of American aggression in 1812 through both armies and militias. The West of Canada was made up of traders and militias for hire, a gun being totally essential in the wild (human enemies and animals). Canadians fought in both world wars, heavily armed and taking on European and Asian aggressors. Guns are intimately connected to Canadian history as well. And yet the country has disarmed in most provinces and those that allow guns treat them like a privilege that only responsible people may have instead of an automatic right. If they can do it…so can America.

    #8042

    Davis
    Moderator

    The average American does not trust government

    Paranoia seems to be a way of life for many people indeed. They are the last people who should have weapons of murder from a distance.

    I often grab a gun when just wandering around my property, I have shot 6 foot long rattlesnakes.

    In some Canadian provinces you are allowed to have certain guns in rural areas. Generally they should be for animal control or hunting. Licensed with background checks and frequent renewal, proof of proficiency with the weapon, keeping it locked in a gun safe and not having a criminal record or mental problems. There is no reason someone cannot have a gun to take care of wildlife on their land, assuming they can demonstrate they know what they are doing with that weapon and can be responsible with it. I don’t think anyone in America is actually trying to take guns away from people. They are just trying to pull of the most basic of regulations.

    So, yeah guns have always been very important to US Citizens for many reasons.

    Most other westerners are quite aware of the cultural motivations behind US gun ownership and perhaps understand the historical and contemporary forces behind the proliferation of gun ownership and deaths. We know about the 2nd amendment and the distrust of government. I’m sympathetic to any culture which is having a hard time giving up part of something that is important to them yet also archaic and toxic. Spain is slowly giving up bullfighting. Some Canadian provinces are giving up the right to hunt certain animals (that have been hunted for centuries). Yemeni’s are slowly giving up the right to chew Arab-tobacco (qat). Croatia gave up the last religious links to democratic politics to join the EU (which is difficult in a country where religion defines the difference between you and your culturally similar neighbors). If they can pull of these difficult changes in countries with cultural histories far far older than America, so can Americans…especially when the change is not completely giving the right to bear arms up…but regulating it in a responsible way.

    #8048

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Good points Davis,

    I am hopeful we do the right things. I am not sure additional regulations will be as effective here as they are in other places. In fact I think that strict gun regulations will just spawn a huge black market controlled by organized crime and local gangsters. Just about half the people I know smoke weed. It’s expensive, dangerous to get and the penalties are stiff. That doesn’t phase them a bit.

    True that Canada doesn’t have mass shootings. Half of them are here, in Florida right now. I guess they are taking their chances. Campers and sailboats and slow moving mini vans, LOL. Canada is simply not a fair comparison. Not much racial diversity or population in general. I do like the way Canadians run their country.

    #8051

    Noel
    Participant

    Average American here and no I don’t prescribe to the whole “they are coming to get me and I can’t trust government” mind set. As far as importance goes there are roughly 5 million members in the NRA. Comparing that to the rest of the population Americans are actually on the other side of that argument. If anything it goes to show just how powerful the gun lobby is that they can thwart popular opinion.

    I don’t own a gun. Most of the people I know don’t either.

    The book, “Guns, Germs, and Steel” talked about the colonist and how all guns were kept in magazines and were distributed in emergency’s. Most farmers were not really good with the ball and powder type weapon. Guns, during colonial times, were also very expensive and beyond the means of the average Joe Schmoe growing crops. The author said that the accuracy of those unrifled muskets was useless at anything beyond about 10 feet. He said you’d be better off with a bow and arrow. More accurate.

    With that said I’m not for taking away anybody’s gun. For one thing we can’t. The law says we can’t. But I am for not putting military style weapons in the hands of the average Joe Schmoe. I’m also for background checks every two years. A psyche check; I mean why not? Most of the assholes that commit these hideous crimes are “perfectly’ sane when they roll up to the gun counter and order themselves a few ar-15’s with tons of ammo. While we are at it tax the fuck out of military style weapons. That’s what I, as and average American, would like to see. I probably have a better shot at seeing god before any of this is implemented.

    #8052

    Noel
    Participant

    BTW: What do you mean it “Looks like American’s are crazy with this whole gun thing”. From the outside looking in we are viewed by everyone as insane.

    #8053

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Noel, I agree that the gun interest is way overrepresented.  it’s more subtle then “they are coming to get me”. It’s more like “you never know what can happen”. One day there are two huge towers, the next day they are gone. I believe for whatever reasons, Americans are willing to accept more risk for more freedom than other societies. That is really the point I was trying to make I guess. “Don’t tread on me”.

    I recall many guys in my high school class had populated rifle racks in their pickup trucks. Something changed. In any event bullets are typically damaging the flesh and bone of African Americans- young boys. Day in and day out. It doesn’t make the news like a suburban school shooting, but wow. If we Americans have lost our ability to control our own emotions and abide by the law, maybe we should not be allowed to own guns. Enforcement of those laws will be very difficult.

    #8060

    Noel
    Participant

    What do you think would have happened if President Obama said this?: “Take the guns first. Go through due process second,”

    This from Huffpost: “For years, the National Rifle Association has been warning gun-loving Americans of a president who will take away their firearms, no matter what the Second Amendment says.
    On Wednesday, that conservative nightmare became a reality when the current Republican U.S. president, Donald Trump, proposed taking away people’s guns, even without the legal right to do so.
    “Take the guns first. Go through due process second,” Trump said at a meeting with Democratic and Republican lawmakers at the White House. “I like taking the guns early.”
    Trump said law enforcement officers should specifically have taken the firearms possessed by Nikolas Cruz, the suspected gunman in the Feb. 14 mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida.
    “I think they should have taken them away, whether they had the right or not,” he said. ”

    What a bunch of hypocrites! Not a peep from the party of the NRA to a sitting President saying he would unilaterally take away a persons property without due process.

    Country is going to shit. We’re the laughing stock of the planet.

Viewing 13 posts - 76 through 88 (of 88 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.