Should AG Garland prosecute Trump…or not?

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 1 week, 2 days ago.

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  • #43339

    Unseen
    Participant

    Merrick Garland is getting a lot of criticism for seemingly not having much taste for prosecuting Trump, but it’s a tough call for him.

    On the one hand, it’s becoming clear that The Donald went well beyond gray areas in several instances. He has committed fraud in terms of raising money to help him win the “Stop the Steal” case in the courts which has instead been used as a kind of piggy bank for Trump and his business enterprises. This is done across state lines, of course, which introduces Federal statutes.

    Then, there’s his almost “out in the open” election meddling which ranges from false claims of election day vote tampering to calling on states to basically invalidate their own election results and dictate a result from the statehouse in his favor to slanderous claims of rigged voting machines. Stuff that would have any ordinary septuagenarian in courts for years and in prison for the rest of their life.

    On the other hand, I’m sure Garland wants to protect the reputation of the Justice Department as an institution that stays out of politics, unlike banana republics that use their law enforcement and legal systems against the administration’s political enemies (Russia, Ukraine, The Philippines, El Salvador, and many others.).

    It’s a long-standing principle that “No one is above the law. Not even the President.” However, Trump is in so much legal doodoo in NY State, Georgia, and elsewhere that it would be understandable if Garland simply sat back and let the states bring him down, arguing that prosecution at the Federal level would simply be redundant.

    Still, Rep. Adam Schiff makes a good argument that (I paraphrase), if the President is immune from prosecution while in office and also when out of office, that gives him full immunity no matter how badly he behaves.

    #43342

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Trump’s actions totally disregarded the founding laws of this nation, and it is our responsibility to prosecute to the full extent.

    Just 75 years after the post WW2 peak, the American empire shows all the classic signs of an “old” empire in decline: failing infrastructure, poorly educated, “uncivil” citizens, scapegoating of immigrants and minorities, a huge political divide in gridlock, expensive military and yet still having failed military campaigns, big wealth gap, huge national debt and rising international competition. Kinda like how the Dutch and then the Brits declined, each time bringing in a new world order.

    If we don’t trust our elections, the dollar will be rendered worthless as an international reserve and that will seal the deal. The Chinese are communists in name only. They are a capitalist dictatorship that has an economy that has just about eclipsed the US economy already and we seem to be yearning to let Trump and company hand them the keys.

    #43343

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Very well said Robert.

    The other thing US needs to confront is the rise of fascism. Justice for all who are not powerful is not justice at all. It is bad enough the better outcome for those who have the resources to retain a good attorney or team of attorneys. Allowing Trump to walk or leaving it up to the states is a major league cop out and failure.

    #43345

    Unseen
    Participant

    Very well said Robert.

    Hey, what about me. Did I make my case badly? LOL

    #43346

    jakelafort
    Participant

    @unseen

    Very well said Robert.

    Hey, what about me. Did I make my case badly? LOL

    Listen Unseen you’ve constructed a bowling alley, set up the pins, and enabled Robert to storm in and knockem dafaq down.

    #43347

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Hey, what about me. Did I make my case badly? LOL

    I think most here know you present your cases pretty well.

    Garland says he’s watching the hearings. I can’t yet see what kind of prosecution could ramp up or succeed once the GOP gains full power in Congress. Sorry to dodge the specific question but my biggest concern is how to convince voters how DJT is a danger to democracy and is not really good for any American in the end. Unless enough of them realize how he’s stolen their money. Trump University all over again, but will enough people want to believe or admit they’ve actually been scammed by their hero? Many will view prosecution as persecution.

    #43348

    If the DOJ cannot indict a sitting President, they should at least be able to do so now. Is it not obvious from the Jan. 6 Committee investigation that Trump “oversaw and co-ordinated” a criminal plot to overturn the election result? And the drunken major should be charged too.

    What if the Democrats setup a task-force to recover the $250m that Trump swindled from his voters for his ‘Election Defense Fund’? This appears not to have existed and is probably easy to prove as a fraud scam. Maybe enough of his supporters will see the light.

    #43349

    _Robert_
    Participant

    If that POS runs again and wins that will suck for the entire world.

    If he runs again and doesn’t win, again…that will also suck as he and his morons try to steal an election, version 2.0, with even more bloodshed. The result will likely be a failed republic.

    If he gets charged with being the criminal that he is, that will not suck, and the country may limp on for a bit.

    #43350

    jakelafort
    Participant

    The ideologues who believe in trump did not reason their way into worshipping him. They won’t be deconverted with reason either. To me it makes sense to confront the gathering storm now.

    #43351

    Unseen
    Participant

    An essay I wrote literally a few minutes ago:

    THE GOP IS BECOMING THE #1 THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY

    Starting with Trump casting doubt on the 2020 vote starting over a year before, then trying set up essentially a coup for 1/6/2021 by pressuring VP Pence to invalidate the results of several states that had not gone unexpectedly to Biden, and then send the electoral vote back to the states, which would set up new Trump-friendlier panels of electors who would basically ignore the will of the electorate and hand the state’s electors to Trump. When this failed, what’s now called “The Big Lie” became the next tactic, both to whip up passion and discord and a distrust of the electoral process, and to raise funds supposedly to fight the fight in the courts, though most of it became a slush fund for Trump’s campaign and business projects.

    The GOP believes that winning isn’t the main thing, it’s the only thing. So they are working hard to make a strategy like the one attempted on 1/6/2021 easier to accomplish next time around by packing the state legislatures in swing states with Trumpist Republicans awaiting the order to overturn their state’s election wherever needed.

    This is how American democracy dies.

    Vice President Pence, whose politics and overall values differ vastly from mine, is still to my mind a man who, if our democracy and the Truth survive 2024, will go down as one of the great American heroes. A man who, despite almost unbearable pressure, saved the Republic from a palace coup.

    #43352

    jakelafort
    Participant

    @unseen

    Vice President Pence, whose politics and overall values differ vastly from mine, is still to my mind a man who, if our democracy and the Truth survive 2024, will go down as one of the great American heroes. A man who, despite almost unbearable pressure, saved the Republic from a palace coup.

    Agreed. I wonder had the mob gotten to him would they have hung him? If they reached Pelosi would they have held her hostage, ripped her to shreds or exactly what would have transpired?

    #43353

    Unseen
    Participant

    @unseen

    Vice President Pence, whose politics and overall values differ vastly from mine, is still to my mind a man who, if our democracy and the Truth survive 2024, will go down as one of the great American heroes. A man who, despite almost unbearable pressure, saved the Republic from a palace coup.

    Agreed. I wonder had the mob gotten to him would they have hung him? If they reached Pelosi would they have held her hostage, ripped her to shreds or exactly what would have transpired?

    I think they’d kill Pence because when you have thousands of people there will always be a few capable of anything in the passion of the moment. I’ve heard it said that the gallows was more symbolic than solidly-built, but once you get the noose around someone’s neck, there’s always a way to hang them, especially considering all the steel scaffolding on the Capitol grounds. Failing that, they could just drag him. If that didn’t work, many a person has been kicked to death. Ditto for Pelosi. Crazy, angry mobs know no law.

    #43354

    Belle Rose
    Participant

    I’m just amazed at how many stupid people there are in this country. Trump only has power because the people who follow him give him that power. If everybody saw him for the criminal he is, and were angry enough to want to punish him the way he deserves, this question wouldn’t even be an issue. Of course the answer would be he needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Why in the world would we do anything different?

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  Belle Rose.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  Belle Rose.
    #43357

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Yes, Trump is a reflection of a large minority of Americans. And no matter how far right you are it ought to be clear Trump has no real political agenda other than self-aggrandizement, is unhinged and possesses subpar intellect. No wonder he is a man of the people! First time i listened to Trump i wrote him off as a complete moron but i had learned from prior idiotic politicians that was not his death knell politically.

    I agree he ought to be prosecuted to the full extent. I assume the reticence to go after him is twofold. First political allies fear his prosecution is their political death. Second there is a possibility his prosecution could set off a civil war or at least civil unrest.

    #43359

    Unseen
    Participant

    I think there’s a major chance that American democracy will come to an end in 2024, with major foreshadowings of how it will happen this November. I blame the totally incompetent Democratic Party for letting so many of the key state legislatures be taken over by the Republican Party. They have largely ignored state level elections and as far as national elections, it’s become a game of “whose turn is up now,” which is how we got Joe Biden instead of Bernie Sanders or Andrew Yang.

    The GOP’s plan, in a nutshell, is for the state legislatures or GOP public officials set aside, subvert, and even dictate election results in the GOP’s favor. Once successful, we’ll be stuck with it forever.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  Unseen.
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