The bastards actually did it

[PopeBeanieModerator]

Jake, everything you’re saying makes perfect sense, and I’d love it if our future could go that way.

This Trump era’s changed my expectations of what’s possible. I’ve seen how political arrogance and thirst for power have prodded a populist hate movement that can take over. What’s still gaining ground now is a political thirst for power, so shamelessly rabid it’s like sharks smelling blood in the water.

Legislatures making laws to maintain their incumbencies; new efforts in legislatures to plan in advance abuse of Electoral College advantages for red states in presidential elections; shamelessly stealing SCOTUS nominations for purely partisan purposes; ignoring public health practices and science even to the point of shaming masks and mask mandates that would have saved lives during covid, even refusing vaccinations just because our government and health officials strongly recommended them.

DeSantis is still getting mileage from this kind of ignorance, and this kind of “fuck the progressives who are ruining our country”. They helped kill a million Americans, giving us the highest covid mortality rate of any civilized country.

Why, and how? Because they invented other enemies to blame, notably Progressives, and they seemed to know instinctively how to evilize this enemy, and energize hate and fear against a supposed enemy that will even replace the white race someday.

Books are written about how this is what nascent fascism looks like.

I’m kindof sorry to rant like that. I feel I don’t know how we will recover from these political incursions. I think the political right has been allowed to take so much power now that it might take decades to recover, if we ever do. At this moment in our history, for me, your suggestions just seem quaint as a single-party system is bearing down on us. Even the populists who are voting for these self-serving politicians can’t see what’s probably going to overwhelm their needs and dreams too, eventually. The populists could become servants when the right gains full power.

Jake, how can we slow down and reverse this single-party political freight train? Finally I have to concede, @asianne has been right all along. I used to think you (Belle) were making lucky guesses, and that Trump wins were just flukes. But the Alt-Right seems to be on it’s way to beating us with authoritarianism, under the guise of moral righteousness and “bringing God back”, at least at first. Other dangerous, political freaks of nature have been winning, too.

Apologies for not knowing how to make this rant more positive. Hopefully I’ll see more light, later. (But Belle, please don’t say you’re getting out of this fucking country again. We know! And I still trust you could have some kind of wisdom you might be able help us with. OK, even later when you’re abroad.)

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  PopeBeanie. Reason: added "(Belle)"

[jakelafortParticipant]

Pope, if i come across as idealistic that is not my intention. It has been said many times that cynics are frustrated idealists. Long ago I lost hope for civilization.

USA is tubular and i have no answers to what seems/feels the inexorable march of history towards our doom.

Apparently a good number of Trump cultists think he is their savior. Winning the election proved to be god’s hand, a divine sign. You can not reason with such individuals. And as Unseen indicates the Dems are very weak.

I think it is crazy for people to have children intentionally. Unless aliens, neuroscience or A I come to our rescue it ain’t gonna be pretty.

[AutumnParticipant]

PopeBeanie wrote:

Even the populists who are voting for these self-serving politicians can’t see what’s probably going to overwhelm their needs and dreams too, eventually. The populists could become servants when the right gains full power. Jake, how can we slow down and reverse this single-party political freight train? Finally I have to concede, @asianne has been right all along. I used to think you were making lucky guesses, and that Trump wins were just flukes. But the Alt-Right seems to be on it’s way to beating us with authoritarianism, under the guise of moral righteousness and “bringing God back”, at least at first. Other dangerous, political freaks of nature have been winning, too. Apologies for not knowing how to make this rant more positive.

Part of the problem is that populism would be one of the most effective weapons against populism, but the longterm damage it causes would likely make it a self-defeating option. Three tactics seem to be particularly effective. i) When people feel a sort of nebulous discomfort, tension, and anger, give them a tangible target to aim those feelings at even if it’s the wrong target. ii) Between truth and simplicity, favour simplicity: cognitive bias can carry the rest of distance toward conversion. iii) Assuage fear of change or fear of self-examination—the problem is never you; it’s always them.

Those tactics aren’t exclusive to the Alt Right or Republicans, but they’ve leaned real hard on them. And progressives can also gain ground by using the same ploys, but eventually everything breaks down. It just leads to people becoming more deeply entrenched. It’s a feedback loop that cements the idea that the opposition is categorically the problem, which means there is always an enemy, which in turn is an idea that keeps feeding negative emotions. Eventually, ideas and evidence fall by the wayside. We’re stuck in some sort of perpetual and potentially misguided threat response.

It’s really difficult to walk that back.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Autumn, props, well thought out, well expressed. Was that at god’s behest?

[AutumnParticipant]

Naturally. Loki, to be more precise.

[PopeBeanieModerator]

Here’s Jon Stewart’s positive take on the hearings, broadcast on June 29th. Maybe we won’t get taken down to the lowest depths of Hell, but some level above it.

I start it at about 27-1/4 minutes in so there’s only about 17 minutes left but it has meat. (Before the point where it starts, I learned that Merrick Garland is Judy Garland’s son, and she was pregnant with him while shooting Wizard of Oz.)

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@popebeanie – Yes, that is a good appraisal from Jon Stewart. The GOP no longer need Trump. DeSantis is “Terminator 2” and Trump supporters don’t have to sacrifice any of their views or opinions to move over to DeSantis who is well educated and smart. I wonder if Jeanette Nunez will be shopping for a new red dress any time soon?

The comment about The Democrats need to go to Republican school for a few lessons is apt. I cannot think of any Democrat at the moment to stand against DeSantis.

[PopeBeanieModerator]

Reg, you’re awesomely up on US politics. I had to look up Nunez! While I lived in Florida for about ten years, and my brother owns property and lives near Gainesville. (I can never go back to that level of humidity. The most dehydrated I’ve ever gotten was while sweating a bucketful there, barely cooling off.)

[AutumnParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Yes, that is a good appraisal from Jon Stewart. The GOP no longer need Trump. DeSantis is “Terminator 2” and Trump supporters don’t have to sacrifice any of their views or opinions to move over to DeSantis who is well educated and smart.

I think the problem here is whether or not Trump voters were voting based on their views in the first place. Part of what seemed to make Trump so appealing was the perception that he was an outsider to the system, he infinitely validated anger in a very visceral way, and his lack of functional intelligence and comfort with simple lies meant he wasn’t alienating for many. I think the challenge DeSantis will face will be that he won’t be able to stoke the fires as well as Trump. Voter apathy may prove an issue for him in states that are less solidly red, especially since Trump loyalists believe the last election was stolen.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Yeah Autumn, Trump’s lack of credibility gives him credibility. What views? Really, what does he stand for other than himself? There is an appeal that is not easily duplicated and a revulsion that is not easily avoided. What is the opposite of professorial? A guy like O’Rourke is to my eye as likeable and personable and relatable without that pedantic style and yet intelligent. I bet he is absolutely despised by Trump supporters cuz ya can’t trust anyone who is smart or has the veneer of intelligence. THOSE people must be part of the establishment. Welcome to Alice in Trumpland.

I think you are right. It is a cult following. Just heard a guest on Sam Harris who seemed to know of what he spoke indicate that a great many of Trump hard core followers think he is god’s anointed. Trump according to the experts had no shot in the prez. election. His winning was for them proof of god’s hand.

[AutumnParticipant]

God commits election fraud from time to time, but only when he has a chance to get away from his full time job: rigging football games.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Trump was the bus driver for the voters who wanted something different. Yes, it was his appeal as an outsider that got him elected. And he knew the roadmap to take his posse towards the dream of a White Christian Utopia. They will always be grateful for that.  DeSantis can take over as the new mayor of Trumpsville. He has been preparing for years. There will be not too much they dislike about him and they will trust him to be a steady hand to cement a right-wing consolidation of power.

But it will be interesting to see if Trump and DeSantis are both on the card.  That could play nicely into Beto’s hands 🙂

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@popebeanie – I happened to have spent a few weeks in Panama City Beach in Florida around election time in 2018 when Nunez and DeSantis were running. Not too far from Gainsville. I would usually only be there around Thanksgiving week and there is absolutely no problem with humidity then.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@autumn – his lack of functional intelligence and comfort with simple lies meant he wasn’t alienating for many…

Yes, he did bigly on the memory test. Nobody has ever done more with such a very large brain.

“The last questions are much more difficult,” he said. “Like a memory question. It’s, uh, like you’ll go, ‘Person, woman, man, camera, TV.’ So they say, ‘Could you repeat that?’ So I said, ‘Yeah.’ So it’s ‘person, woman, man, camera, TV.’ ‘Okay, that’s very good.’” Source

[AutumnParticipant]

Both running in the primaries, or Trump running as an independent with DeSantis as the Republican candidate?

I wouldn’t be surprised if DeSantis had the same number of supporters—potentially more as some Republicans likely struggled with Trump. It’s just the voter turnout I wonder about. 2020 was fever pitch for Republicans and Democrats alike.

I suppose the other question is wether DeSantis is more or less disturbing of an option.

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