The Covid lies and shenanigans are coming to light

Homepage Forums Science The Covid lies and shenanigans are coming to light

This topic contains 47 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 6 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 48 total)
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  • #49437

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    @simon thank you, great link. I listened to the whole thing, and my favorite episode is #7 because it presents a nice overview. The other episodes are also great, while I’d add that #1 through #6 are basically in order of their historical occurrence.

    #49438


    Participant

    I’ve mentioned more than a few times by now, it’s important to know BOTH possible origins, even when I believe in probable zoonotic origin. As technology evolves and knowledge available to humans around the world increases, intentional “lab leaks” are increasingly possible.

    In a world where that information is likely to be made available, I would certainly welcome the disclosure. As it stands, I don’t think it’s too likely we’re going to get that disclosure from any authorized channels.

    But even without it, we’re already aware that labs around the world have pathogens stored. We’re aware that lab animals are occasionally liberated or misplaced, including mice with bubonic plague causing bacteria (though the plague is less of a concern these days, admittedly). We’re also aware of biological warfare being a possible reality.

    We know there are a number of ways a pandemic could originate and spread. And despite this knowledge, we still allow ourselves to have poor pandemic response measures in place. I am not saying the source doesn’t matter, but in practical terms, it seems like a rather lesser concern where Covid-19 was concerned.

    #49439

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Nice cool hand luke reference. Unlimited scope. Pope.

    I know you have an interest in virology and have educated yourself. As a scientific topic it is as peachy as any other. On the other hand as a topic for public consumption it seems to me it is just another way to augment dissension between the mindless and brain-dead. Kung Flu! The marionettes make the call and the mindless and brain-dead parrot the marionettes.

    #49440

    jakelafort
    Participant

    *marionettist

    #49443

    Unseen
    Participant

    I always said it’s a possibility and the Chinese leadership will never admit it and if this is true it happened on Trump’s watch, so I have no idea right wing nut jobs would be so happy about it. And we know Trump defunded much of the medical equipment Obama had in storage for pandemics.

    Yes, governments lie to us, sometimes to help us “do the right thing” (Fauci lying about masks, worried about people hoarding masks needed by health care workers and first responders) and sometimes to cover up their misdeeds and mistakes and sometimes to manufacture consent.

    Here’s the thing, even if the leak hypothesis was dismissed unscientifically, show us the fucking evidence as always. You have the zoological origin possibility (as has occurred with virtually every pandemic since the dawn of humans) or the leak possibility.

    a) Since the dawn of humans. Well, there were no labs or labs working on gain of function until very recently, so that’s kind of a vacuous assertion. I would never say that it couldn’t have occurred in nature, but you have to admit that the fact that it happened in Wuhan, where they have a lab that does such research and that it appears that the first “patient zeroes” were lab workers is pretty strong evidence that it came from the lab. Finally, on that point, three questions. First, the breakout happened in one of the few cities in the world where such work is done. Coincidence? Second, how many wet markets in China have a virology lab doing work on weoponizable viruses just down the road? Third, to what degree do you believe in coincidences?

    I guess I don’t believe in coincidences to that degree which seemingly has opened me to a charge of conspiracy theorist.

    All coronaviruses before COVID 19 are known to be Zoonotic in origin and there is no known evidence that has a possible precursor strain to COVID 19 was present or being studied in the Wuhan labs. And yes, the Chinese have suppressed epidemic related information (SARS1) before. So that’s where we stand.

    “All coronaviruses before COVID 19 are known to be Zoonotic in origin.” You need to rephrase that to “For all we know, there hasn’t been a non-zoonotic coronavirus before” or, perhaps, closer to the actual truth, “It may simply be that no genetically-modified coronavirus has ever escaped a virology research lab before.”

    A lab right in the save vicinity as one of the few labs in the world playing around with dangerous viruses.

     

    #49444

    Unseen
    Participant

    Color me ignorant. But i am not sure why ascertaining the origin is so important.

    Let’s start with these questions:

    Did Dr. Fauci lie or split hairs under oath in his testimony in the now famous exchange between Dr. Fauci and Sen. Rand Paul?

    Did the American government through NIH financing foster research that leaked out of a Chinese lab and caused a disastrous worldwide pandemic? In other words, how much responsibility do the United States and China bear for the 7 million lives lost?

    How much of the overwrought effort to convince the public that the virus had a natural origin in a live animal market just down the road from an American funded Chinese virology lab is propaganda to cover up American and Chinese responsibility for the pandemic?

    That’s for starters. Of course, if people don’t want answers, I have to ask why?

     

    #49445

    Unseen
    Participant

    we’re already aware that labs around the world have pathogens stored. We’re aware that lab animals are occasionally liberated or misplaced, including mice with bubonic plague causing bacteria (though the plague is less of a concern these days, admittedly). We’re also aware of biological warfare being a possible reality.

    And yet, to argue for the possibility of a lab leak seemingly makes one a conspiracy theorist rather than someone entertaining a rather obvious and highly-logical possibility.

    #49448


    Participant

    And yet, to argue for the possibility of a lab leak seemingly makes one a conspiracy theorist rather than someone entertaining a rather obvious and highly-logical possibility.

    It’s not a ‘highly-logical’ possibility. It’s just hypothetically possible. And the association with conspiracy theorists is probably based on many of us having become exhausted with the overall conversation and dealing with people who will accept nearly any narrative except the common one as if they’re uncovering some hidden truth that the rest of the sheep refuse to see or validating their general anti-government paranoia. While that isn’t a rational basis for rejecting a position, it is a reasonable basis for a heavy eye roll at the litany of “The experts are wrong about Covid except for this expert who agrees with me…” sort of content we’ve been inundated with.
    #49449

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Unseen, my assumption is that this topic being front and center is destructive. No point in me elaborating cuz we all know about the political climate in contemporary murica.

    #49450

    Unseen
    Participant

    It’s not a ‘highly-logical’ possibility. It’s just hypothetically possible. And the association with conspiracy theorists is probably based on many of us having become exhausted with the overall conversation and dealing with people who will accept nearly any narrative except the common one as if they’re uncovering some hidden truth that the rest of the sheep refuse to see or validating their general anti-government paranoia. While that isn’t a rational basis for rejecting a position, it is a reasonable basis for a heavy eye roll at the litany of “The experts are wrong about Covid except for this expert who agrees with me…” sort of content we’ve been inundated with.

    Come on. I don’t need an expert to agree with me. Just the fact that the infection just happened to occur where there’s a world class virology lab and that the two apparent patient zeroes worked at the lab seems rather far-fetched to be a mere a coincidence. If those people shopped at the wet market  while not having symptoms yet, they could have infected a bat or pangolin. Maybe they caught the virus at the market and brought it to the lab? Yeah, but that seems the less likely occurrence.

    The lab leak theory isn’t nearly as crazy as the people who want to cling to cosmic-level coincidences want to pretend.

    #49451

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, my assumption is that this topic being front and center is destructive. No point in me elaborating cuz we all know about the political climate in contemporary murica.

    Seeking the truth…”destructive.” This in a forum populated by supposed skeptics.

    #49452


    Participant

    Come on. I don’t need an expert to agree with me. Just the fact that the infection just happened to occur where there’s a world class virology lab and that the two apparent patient zeroes worked at the lab seems rather far-fetched to be a mere a coincidence.

    Not really. Half of it isn’t confirmed (or known to be likely) and the other half isn’t strange statistically speaking. Wuhan is a sizeable urban centre and a provincial capital. It would be weird if it didn’t have virology labs. If there were an epidemic first detected in Canada, odds are decent it would be first detected not far from a virology research facility. Throwing around the term ‘patient 0’ with covid 19 is odd considering its virulence and the number of asymptomatic carriers. A geographic region would be quite practical by tracking the spread of the virus, but patient 0?

    Anyway, I said my piece. I’ll leave you to it.

    #49454

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Unseen i think you know i was talking about this as a political issue in the public eye. Discussing it here is irrelevant. And this is not exactly a typical cross section of the public.

    #49500

    Unseen
    Participant

    Biden White House DEMANDED Lab Leak Censorship, New Facebook Emails Show:

    When they want your opinion, they’ll give it to you.

    #49658

    Unseen
    Participant

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