The Power of Prayer

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This topic contains 245 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 1 year ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 246 total)
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  • #5240

    .
    Participant

    @davis

    Did Dr. Bob write this non-answer?

    What do you mean?

    #5241

    Dang Martin
    Participant

    I have seen prayer work. But I’m sure you’ll disagree

    How can I disagree, when you’ve provided nothing for this conversation, including nothing for your own argument.

    When did you see it work?

    What happened?

    How do you know that a supernatural being intervened?

    How do you know WHICH supernatural being intervened?

    How do you know that satan wasn’t just tricking you?

    Coincidence?

    How do you know that the prayer you saw answered was not something that was going to happen or not happen anyway?

    I could look back on the good and bad things in my recent experiences, and then make ALL of them appear to have been prayers answered. For the good stuff, god answered my prayers, loves me, and has a plan. For the bad stuff, god felt he should challenge me, or maybe he “works in mysterious ways.”

    It’s easy:

    1. Describe the situation

    2. How do you feel about it?

    3. Apply a small set of MAGIC 8 BALL answers. Just pick one. Whichever one you want. Doesn’t matter.

    At the very least, you could try. So far, you’ve not made a very good argument in favor of your god.

    Your god is a Magic 8 Ball in your own head. Nobody else can see it. It has you entertained, and that is all that really matters, so no need to try to convince anyone that it’s real.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Dang Martin.
    #5243

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    Participant

    ….so no need to try to convince anyone that it’s real.

    You’re right. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m not going to pour my heart out to have it dragged through the mud. Deal with it.

    #5244

    .
    Participant

    RE: How can I disagree, when you’ve provided nothing for this conversation, including nothing for your own argument.

    Because no matter what I say you’re all going to say it’s going to go like this:

    You: “oh but that’s just your anecdotal experience. That’s not REAL evidence.”

    Me: Ok. Well what kind of evidence would you like?

    You: Objective evidence. We’ve already told you.

    Me: Ok well spell out for me exactly what you mean by that.

    You: We already have and you’re a liar.

    Me: No honestly I really don’t understand.

    You: You liar!

    So fuck it. Why bother.

    #5245

    Dang Martin
    Participant

    ….so no need to try to convince anyone that it’s real.

    You’re right. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m not going to pour my heart out to have it dragged through the mud. Deal with it.

    Then there is a serious question that must be answered.

    What the hell are you doing here? What are your goals? What do you get out of this? How does it benefit YOU? It certainly doesn’t benefit me, or anyone here. You should care about the honest answer to those questions.

    All you do is pick fights and then declare yourself a victim. I don’t know what anyone gets out of that.

    #5246

    Dang Martin
    Participant

    So fuck it. Why bother.

    And yet, you’re bothering, for some mysterious reason.

    #5249

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Dang, dang, you are kinda mean, gratuituously so…

    Does it occur to you that Belle is bonded with people here and in turn others may be bonded with her? You speak for all of the members in saying she does not benefit anyone here?

    All you do is pick with fights and declare yourself a victim? That is hyperbole.

    Why be mean? What do you get out of it  Dang?

    #5250

     

     

    So you’re allowed to quote the Bible (I didn’t – you did) but I’m not allowed to answer? Ok.

    Correct. I have decided it is not proselytizing. If other mods think it is they will tell me I am wrong.

    I quoted that verse because Christians use it to argue that their god has a plan for their lives. It is similarly repeated in Acts and “two Corinthians” as Trump calls it. I don’t care if you disagree with what other Christians say the verse means. I am not allowing a theological debate on the meaning of that verse. I asked why you don’t believe your God has a plan for you as “most” Christians do. If you do then why do you pray?

    You’re cherry picking and twisting it to be what you want it to say

    Bullshit. I am not.

    It’s a Hitchens move.

    Bullshit. It is not. Evidence please.

    That’s how he made his millions.

    Bullshit it is not.

    You are non-answering in the Dr. Bob tradition.  I asked about your Gods’ plan and you deflected by introducing Hitchens in a disparaging manner and without any evidence.

    I don’t understand your version of Christianity. You seem to have made your own one up. I have never met a Christian who said their God did not have a plan for them or that while they did not always know why certain things happened, they still trusted in their faith that God must have his reasons. I mean that is what it says in their Bible.

    Given the hundreds of polar opposite contradictions in the Bible it is no wonder there are so many different interpretations and thousands of different cults. They all think they are right just as you think Calvinists are wrong.

    I grew up in Catholic Ireland. I went to Catholic schools with Catholic teachers, next door to a ugly Catholic Cathedral. It might have well have been the first floor of the Vatican. People were gone demented by it as I was by having to listen to them telling me about it. I thought I knew what Catholicism was until I met Dr. Bob. The vagueness of his form of apologetics was something to behold. Anytime he was stuck for an answer he would reply with something about energy and claim that was a valid answer. It was but only in the sense it was a non-answer. Then he would introduce a different argument or make sweeping statements about how atheists think and then consider his deflection of the point originally made to be a valid rebuttal of that point.

    All theists have a problem arguing the points made and so they keep giving non-answers.

    #5251

    .
    Participant

    @Dang I’m not answering you. You’re not worth my time. And you don’t deserve an explanation.

    #5252

    .
    Participant

    @Reg I will answer you a piece at a time. Hitchens always took Bible doctrine. Made it into his own, made it sound ridiculous in order to belittle it. That is essentially what you did with this one little verse here.

    FOR EXAMPLE: Hitchens says “God folded his arms and then decided to intervene 2000 years ago (loosely quoted)…That’s not right at all!!!

    He made money by “Destroying” Christianity but did so by mocking it in an appealing way that to the believers who didn’t know better it sounds enticing.

    Thats essentially what you’ve done here! You’re saying you ask Christians “why bother praying if God already knows what is going to happen?”…to which I’m explaining- no – that’s not what that verse is talking about. But I’m not allowed to get into a debate about it. So….you’re pulling a Hitchens move.

    #5253

    Belle you are replying to a post written by Dang and are making unsupported statements about prayer, the topic of the post. He did not ask you to pour out your heart. He asked for an explanation of what you meant by claiming prayer works. If it is just your opinion that it does then say so. Don’t state it as if it is provable if it is not.

    #5254

    FOR EXAMPLE: Hitchens says “God folded his arms and then decided to intervene 2000 years ago (loosely quoted)…That’s not right at all!!!

    What has that go to do with the Bible? Where did Hitchens make it his own? Sounds like another non-answer unless you want to support it with evidence. So the intervention of Jesus was not around 2000 years ago? That was only because his other intervention of drowning everyone failed to do what it set out to do – unless the flood story just allegory too? Humans have been around for over 150,000 years. Why did He wait so long? These are the things you must believe if you are a Christian.  I consider it forthright and honest. If you think it is belittling then open a post about it and explain where it is wrong.

    He made money by “Destroying” Christianity but did so by mocking it in an appealing way that to the believers who didn’t know better it sounds enticing.

    No he did not. He did write a book about how religion poisons’ everything but that should not bother you as you are not religious.

    So….you’re pulling a Hitchens move. Stop telling me shit like this. I am not. We are not discussing the verse. Stop deflecting. Again, I am asking you why you don’t believe your God has a plan for you as “most” Christians do. If you do then why do you pray? What is the point of prayer? What does it achieve? This is the point of the post. Explain in your own words without the biblical apologetics.

     

    #5255

    Thats essentially what you’ve done here! You’re saying you ask Christians “why bother praying if God already knows what is going to happen?”…to which I’m explaining- no – that’s not what that verse is talking about

    No it is not. I introduced that verse a day after I asked the question. I have already explained why. I still have not got an answer. Only deflections about Hitchens, Calvinists or some vague apologetics not related to prayer.

    #5256

    Dang Martin
    Participant

    1. Dang, dang, you are kinda mean, gratuituously so…

    2. Does it occur to you that Belle is bonded with people here and in turn others may be bonded with her?

    3. You speak for all of the members in saying she does not benefit anyone here?

    4. All you do is pick with fights and declare yourself a victim? That is hyperbole.

    5. Why be mean? What do you get out of it Dang?

    I will be answering all of your points, and have broken it out for ease of reading.

    1. I suppose one could read it with a mean tone in their own head. That’s the reader’s interpretation. I’ve had discussions with at least one Mod about behavior and best approaches. I know that they would be sending me a PM if I were being mean. And if I were being mean, truly, then I would expect to be kicked off without notice, account deleted.

    2. I know she has as ton of “friends” on here. I don’t take online friends too seriously. If you’ve bonded, then that’s cool, I suppose. I don’t care who has bonded, who has not, who has been here a long time, or who is new. That does nothing in the way of moving the conversation.

    3. I NEVER said that I speak for “all of the members,” and I do not know why you would make that up, or why you would even BELIEVE for one second that I was declaring that I speak for others. I don’t even claim to speak for Atheists in general, and will often note that “I can speak only for myself.” If she makes an assertion and does not support it, then it does no good. If she gets mad and says something is not true, without saying WHY it is not true, then it does no good. I was primarily asking about HER benefit, or what SHE gets out of it. From here, it seems like aggravation.

    4. It has happened in more than one thread. You may not be able to see it through the “bonding.”

    5. I get absolutely NOTHING out of fights, just as I get nothing out of unsupported claims and vapid platitudes. I’ve gotten lots of things from being here, such as the recent discussion that ventured into “theory of mind.”

    It has nothing to do with whether or not someone agrees or disagrees, either. Here are TWO examples of waste-of-time posts that serve no purpose:

    “I agree with you.”

    “I disagree with you.”

    In both cases, it does nothing to inform. It’s not a discussion. It’s not a case being made for or against anything. It’s agreement or disagreement, and neither do anything to move a discussion. It’s pointless.

    I see nothing about what I’ve said as being a mean, personal attack, and yet you’ve felt the need to “white knight” this and turn it into something that it is not.

    MODS – HERE’S THE DEAL: I know that you don’t like to sweat things like this, and have better things to do than engage in confrontations, even though you know that I am not confrontational. I’m going to go away for a while. If I come back, and I can login, then I will stay. If I cannot login, then I will “take the hint” and go away.

    Assertions are cheap and VERY easy to make. The hard part is backing it up. In keeping with the topic of the thread, NOBODY has ever seen a prayer be answered. Never. If they did, then they must prove it. But then it falls back onto the problem that the supernatural world cannot be proven.

    #5257

    Dang Martin
    Participant

    @Dang I’m not answering you. You’re not worth my time. And you don’t deserve an explanation.

    I’ve stayed OFF your threads, out of a minimum form of respect. When you step onto my thread, I will address you.

    You have no worthy explanations, and I don’t care what you have to say. Good luck leaving Nazi Germany, and I hope that nothing horrible happens to your kids after you sell yourself to a South African husband. Good luck.

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