The Republicans Want a Right-Wing Dictatorship

[Unseen]

_Robert_ wrote:

OK, so you are throw-in-the-towel, wimp-ass Democrats, LOL. What else is new. That’s why we lose. China, Russia? Give me a break. They have never known democracy.

If you think we in the U.S. has experienced democracy, then here’s my point: More and more Americans are ready to get it up and line up behind an autocrat. Want to know why?

This man lives in the paranoid alternate universe of Fox News — so you don’t have to

What makes you so sure that the Chinese, for example, would trade their prosperity and unparalleled growth for fair elections?

[Unseen]

jakelafort wrote:

Has any civilization known democracy?

The Greeks? Of course, they’re the perfect example that democracy doesn’t necessarily include everyone (no non-high born men, no slaves, no women). Democracy is a procedure for making decisions that works for those who have the vote.

[jakelafort]

Unseen, that definition of democracy is aesthetic and hollow. It is certainly not the ideal that decent humans would aspire to hold. It might be just fine to have limitations on voting based on age or mental capability but discriminating against entire groups defeats the vision.

It is not democracy when interests of business greatly influence elections and legislators. Then again without a critical crowd to vote democracy doesn’t seem like it will create halcyon visions.

[_Robert_]

Unseen wrote:

jakelafort wrote:

Has any civilization known democracy?

The Greeks? Of course, they’re the perfect example that democracy doesn’t necessarily include everyone (no non-high born men, no slaves, no women). Democracy is a procedure for making decisions that works for those who have the vote.

Last time I checked; my nephews were not raised to worship “dear leader” from the age of 2 like the Chinese. So maybe like 20 or 30% of Americans have gone done some virtual rabbit hole. And holy fuck I never realized how many goddam idiots walk our cracked sidewalks

We got caught sleeping, yet still enough people stepped up to the plate. The element of surprise is gone and yeah, they make a lot of noise. For every action there is a reaction. Do the wealthy power brokers want instability…because that is what Trump brings to the (nuclear) nth power?

No, I don’t think the American zeitgeist is similar to the Chinese “communist/capitalist” experience. Is (a) Trump really our future or (b)will Americans ditch that bitch? I would go with option “b” at this instant.

[jakelafort]

Hope you are right Robert.

But it does not have to be the Chinese or Russian paradigm as the predicate to  USA descending into fascism. Nor does it have to be Trump who is the Czar.

Americans are so divided and the politicization of covid to this degree is  insanity that would not have rung true/plausible or kept my interest in a novel.  The BS misinformation is going to keep working its magic. As you point out there is a big backlash to a perceived transfer of power to the former under classes.  And if the current Biden term is perceived as a big failure then there will be a natural pendulum swing to the right. The far right does not play fair like the pussy dems. It feels dangerous to me. I guess nobody knows. Just guessing…

[Unseen]

_Robert_ wrote:

Unseen wrote:

jakelafort wrote:

Has any civilization known democracy?

The Greeks? Of course, they’re the perfect example that democracy doesn’t necessarily include everyone (no non-high born men, no slaves, no women). Democracy is a procedure for making decisions that works for those who have the vote.

Last time I checked; my nephews were not raised to worship “dear leader” from the age of 2 like the Chinese. So maybe like 20 or 30% of Americans have gone done some virtual rabbit hole. And holy fuck I never realized how many goddam idiots walk our cracked sidewalks We got caught sleeping, yet still enough people stepped up to the plate. The element of surprise is gone and yeah, they make a lot of noise. For every action there is a reaction. Do the wealthy power brokers want instability…because that is what Trump brings to the (nuclear) nth power? No, I don’t think the American zeitgeist is similar to the Chinese “communist/capitalist” experience. Is (a) Trump really our future or (b)will Americans ditch that bitch? I would go with option “b” at this instant.

Whatever. The real point is that the GOP is moving to set up a system where all of that is irrelevant. They want to centralize power in the Administrative Branch which controls ALL of the government’s enforcement power. The Founders counted on the branches respecting boundaries and counting on the help of the other branches as needed, but if the Administrative Branch is run by a monomaniacal narcissist and his party is firmly in control of the majority of state legislators, we are heading down a rabbit hole of no return with no way out. It’s not just that the President would have all of the Federal Government’s guns at his command, but the party of the electorate that likes him is the better armed segment. Believe me, many on the right in the U.S. today are armed and are ready to use their guns when called upon to do so.

[_Robert_]

I [officer’s name], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God!

The military is free to interpret someone like Trump as a threat to the constitution and we saw the Capitol police do that very thing to his supporters. There is no oath of allegiance to the commander. In fact, many generals have been vocal about that shithead.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/politics/donald-trump-election-coup-new-book-excerpt/index.html

Now I am not saying that they won’t try doing this if he is reelected, however I do think it will not be easy for them. There are still many smarter folks than him who will fight him. As for our local right-wing-nuts and their guns, I am not impressed. I live in an ex-confederate state. I have seen plenty of those lard asses at the range. I doubt if most of them can run 20 feet without keeling over, LOL.

[Unseen]

_Robert_ wrote:

I [officer’s name], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God!

The military is free to interpret someone like Trump as a threat to the constitution and we saw the Capitol police do that very thing to his supporters. There is no oath of allegiance to the commander. In fact, many generals have been vocal about that shithead. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/politics/donald-trump-election-coup-new-book-excerpt/index.html Now I am not saying that they won’t try doing this if he is reelected, however I do think it will not be easy for them. There are still many smarter folks than him who will fight him. As for our local right-wing-nuts and their guns, I am not impressed. I live in an ex-confederate state. I have seen plenty of those lard asses at the range. I doubt if most of them can run 20 feet without keeling over, LOL.

One of the first things the Commander-in-Chief would do if he wanted to consolidate power would be to clear out any potential resistance in the brass. The views of General Flynn, that we need to have a coup and that we need an official religion (“one religion” is how he put it, which is even more distressing) are probably held by many at the top. Then, with almost all the civilaian guns in the hands of mostly right-wing gun enthusiasts, Trump will have his brown shirts, basically. School board members and election officials who don’t toe the Trump line are already getting death threats and/or are being intimidated in person.

I think you’re being very pollyanna-ish.

P.S. — Trump took that very same oath. Do you believe it will keep him inside the guard rails?

 

[jakelafort]

If the GOP has its way and a coup is attempted it may well come down to the military. It is pretty clear that Trump alienated the generals with his… i know more than all of the generals.  I think they’re mostly well educated and truly would have an allegiance to constitution and country and view Trump as a traitor.  Without the military however well armed the few militia hate groups and far right nut jobs they won’t succeed.

I guess it is possible Trump will seek to install puppet generals but that move would be transparent and act as a fillip for the military…i think?

[Unseen]

jakelafort wrote:

If the GOP has its way and a coup is attempted it may well come down to the military. It is pretty clear that Trump alienated the generals with his… i know more than all of the generals. I think they’re mostly well educated and truly would have an allegiance to constitution and country and view Trump as a traitor. Without the military however well armed the few militia hate groups and far right nut jobs they won’t succeed. I guess it is possible Trump will seek to install puppet generals but that move would be transparent and act as a fillip for the military…i think?

The solution to a right-wing coup is a military coup. Robert…are you paying attention?

[_Robert_]

The country has survived a secession and very bloody civil war, the great depression, multiple assassinations, 2 world wars, the cold war, terrorist attacks on NY and the Pentagon and a coup attempt by guys dressed like Vikings who claim it was really antifa in disguise.

You think there weren’t droves of people walking around each time saying…”this is it, the end of a nation.” I don’t think 10,000 fat ass MAGATs militias playing army out in the woods 2 hours a month, an assortment of evangelical morons and a demented idiot will be the end, even if he gets elected. He will get blocked at every turn. Again.

 

[jakelafort]

All true Robert.

But how probative are any of those to the future of the USA? Cuz it is also true that every empire falls. And the vast majority never sees it coming.  I am not sure we if we are in a tinder box ready to ignite or if this is a blip on the radar.

Strap in sports fans.

[Unseen]

_Robert_ wrote:

The country has survived a secession and very bloody civil war, the great depression, multiple assassinations, 2 world wars, the cold war, terrorist attacks on NY and the Pentagon and a coup attempt by guys dressed like Vikings who claim it was really antifa in disguise. You think there weren’t droves of people walking around each time saying…”this is it, the end of a nation.” I don’t think 10,000 fat ass MAGATs militias playing army out in the woods 2 hours a month, an assortment of evangelical morons and a demented idiot will be the end, even if he gets elected. He will get blocked at every turn. Again.

a) The blocking almost failed the first time. Next time, there will be less and/or less effective blocking. A conservative Supreme Court that overwhelmingly wants to leave things like running elections to the states might not intercede, and if they did, can we trust Trump and his hand-picked top generals to respect the court?

b) Sometimes the Henny Pennys of the world turn out to be prescient. It’s worth noting the views of Gen. Flynn and wondering how many other top generals and admirals sympathize with his views, and also we should wonder whos lead the enlisted men would follow.

[D]

I am leaning towards “no”. I wouldn’t bet money on Trump winning and overturning democracy in America. Having said that…it is not as though the chances of it happening are microscopic. Stronger civilizations have disintegrated quickly in the past. A few calamitous issues or unfortunate unpredictable events (natural or cultural) could quickly lead to our demise.

In any case, with Global Warming coming, societal collapse (as we know it per Western developed democracies) seems inevitable. And, it is likely to happen eventually even if Global Warming were magically solved. Every waking moment of our Western democracies sits on an extremely fragile and precarious base. It can easily (and likely will one day) topple.

[Unseen]

What all you pooh-poohers and naysayers are missing is that the next coup attempt is underway RIGHT NOW. It’s ongoing. It’s not off in the future if Trump should regain the presidency. First, the GOP is busy setting up ways to fix the election to make sure he wins in 2024, but also in case he loses to overturn the will of the electorate.

But there has been a subtle shift in how Trump and his allies have talked about the supposed “rigging” of the 2020 election in a way that will make such claims more appealing to the conservative judges and politicians that held the line last time around. Come 2024, crass and boorish unsubstantiated claims of stealing are likely to give way to arcane legal arguments about the awesome power of state legislatures to run elections as they see fit. Forget bonkers accusations about Italy using lasers to manipulate American vote totals and expect white-shoe lawyers with Federalist Society bona fides to argue next time about application of the “independent state legislature” doctrine in an attempt to turn any Republican presidential defeat into victory. (from Trump Is Planning a Much More Respectable Coup Next Time)

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