Tyranny coming to you

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This topic contains 43 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  David Boots 7 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 31 through 44 (of 44 total)
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  • #8565

    David Boots
    Participant

    2,671 prosecutions under this law were made in the United Kingdom in just the first 5 years. That is more than one prosecution each and every day of the week for over five years. You would think that level of resources could be applied more usefully elsewhere.

    #8568

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Why is it you say freedom is an American fantasy?

    I think that Americans have become an “extremist” society. Many of us take selected individual rights included in the Bill of Rights to the extreme without realizing that rights can and do oppose each other. “Moderation is Key” is lost on in these times. Throw-in anti-education sentiments and we have the cluster fuck we have. OK so you are allowed to own a semi-auto carbine. It’s a “right”. So we have 100 round magazines and bumpfire stocks. I think America needs to be reigned-in by above average leadership and we need a “civics lesson”.

    #8570

    David Boots
    Participant

    Ok I am not American so feel free to discount my views. But America is awesome. Its contribution to modern society is probably unequalled in history. The technology, science and extraordinary jurisprudence are stunning.

    Sure it is flawed. It has way more guns than it needs. The country is riddled with crackpot christians and a strange unjustified paranoia about government as an institution. A large portion of the population are under-educated by comparative international standards and the police appear on the whole unable to stop shooting unarmed people.

    Yet if there is one thing the rest of the world can envy it is their obsession with their rights and in particular their love of free speech.

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  David Boots.
    #8574

    _Robert_
    Participant

    One thing is for sure, if you do not respect your rights and freedoms, chaos ensues. We are getting there. Whenever there is a simple disaster like a hurricane here in Florida, it becomes like the wild west all over again. Everything is hanging by a thread. I really do think it is the lack of education; the celebration of ignorance that is the biggest threat to our freedoms. The right not be killed or maimed and to be relatively safe in your daily life is paramount to me and if free speech or gun ownership has to be tempered (e.g. we can’t handle those rights) well then they should be tempered. I am on the fence about going to a concert even; and well, that just sucks.

    #8578

    the celebration of ignorance that is the biggest threat to our freedoms

    I agree. The idea that Oprah would make a good President is part of that as is the current slashing of scientific research budgets – which is one of the reason America became great in the first place. When I read about the “success” of things like “Goop” I get annoyed. It is only making money because of a lack of critical thinking skills that allow people to accept such dumbness.

    #8580

    Davis
    Participant

    @david

    You won’t get any argument from me that the hate-laws in the UK and to a lesser extent in France are applied too broadly in some extraordinary cases. The Count Dankula one for example is a pretty difficult case to explain either way. However, hate-speech, extreme harassment, intimidation and threats exploded during the Brexit debate and the narratives that came out from it and after the vote. Immigrants who never experienced racism or intimidation found it came hard and fast out of nowhere…both to children and adults. Busses in the UK became a notorious place of vile nastiness against not just immigrants but LGTB too, and even people with disabilities. Many of the hate-crime convictions come from mobile-video recordings on busses….often filmed by non-immigrants, angry and concerned but to afraid to intervene. One of the reasons convictions of hate-crime have gone up into the thousands is because examples of hate crime exploded recently after the Brexit vote, the laws were updated to reflect that and the government and police are finally taken seriously. This is a phenomena that might be completely invisible to many British people who have less flagrant acts of racism happen in their community or who don’t take public transportation in mixed areas. It’s hard to image there would be thousands of convictions or that things are as bad as they say it is.

    Does this apply to Countdankula? I don’t know. His example seems pretty tame compared to those who had “go back to ISISstan smeared in excrement on their front door” or black people called monkeys threatened with physical beatings if they were seen again on the bus. Just watch an episode of South Park and you’ll see Jewish jokes way harder than what Countdankula did. But then, the authors are Jewish themselves…and it was done in the United States. And the UK had the hollocaust virtually waiting at their doorstep. I have no pity for the idiot who made the video but a jail conviction would be a pretty terrible use of the justice system.

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  Davis.
    #8596

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    This seems relevant:  a BBC Radio 4 programme, “The Silence of the Liberals” about misplaced anti-racism on the Left in the West, from 5 March 2018.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tcvp2

    #8830

    David Boots
    Participant

    Here is another case that should make everyone stop – think and focus.

    A 19 year old girl posted lyrics from a rap song on her private instagram account. The lyrics contained the word nigger which made it a hate crime. She was convicted of the criminal offence of race hate.

    Read about it here…

    The song is here…

     

    #8832

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I don’t know the details of the case.

    I don’t get it, check out Ashley All Day “I be errywhere”, every other word is niggers or bitches.

    #8833

    David Boots
    Participant

    Well there are lots of things that are offensive. I find this type of law offensive for starters.

    #8834

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I’m not sure I find the type of law offensive, but I find it offensive that (apparently) a young girl got a criminal record for repeating the words of a well known rap song on a private Instagram tribute to a 13 year-old friend who died.

    I would never use those words to refer to black people or women, because where I come from they are offensive, but apparently for Ashley All Day, they’re fine, which I guess, is fine.

    I don’t see any difference between posting the track on Youtube and posting the lyrics on one’s Instagram account.

    Liverpool is famous for its “loony left” politics going back at least to the 80s.

    #8840

    Davis
    Participant

    David Boots wrote:
    My view is that this conviction should serve as a warning that your liberty to voice an opinion is threatened and has been for some time. Either people wake up soon to this or we will all have to submit to religious oppression and in our lifetime.
    As I’ve said before. The United States has a very unique and quite extreme attitude towards free speech. One has virtually the right to say anything that doesn’t involve a crime (or instigate crime). Europe, Canada, Aust/NZ, Japan etc have never ever had remotely similar concept of freedom of speech. And there is no notable movement in these countries to remove these limits on freedom of speech. In a survey very few Europeans felt sympathy for those convicted of hate speech or “gross offence” or “gross indecency”.Remember the analoy of the Westboro baptist church. Americans and European take a very different attitude towards it and show little interest in changing it.

    Ask yourself…what if the guy had thrown his dog a black doll and said “kill that n******r” and trained the dog to rip it apart. Would you be so quick to defend the rights of the person who made that video”? I highly doubt Rick Gervais would have defended it so passionately. Jewish jokes are a lot more tollerated than  jokes about people of color, partially because many Jewish people make their own jokes against themselves, and also we are under the misconception that Jews are now completely equal and accepted and don’t face the problems they once did. This is not true. There is still clear anti-semitism alive and in play. And many Jewish people who see South Park and Family Guy jew bashing become very distressed as what that could mean for them in the future and in memory of family members who were butchered in their lifetimes. I don’t mind South Park and family guy because absolutely noone and nothing is spared the wrath of their cartoon satyre which includes a whole lot of hard core jokes about LGTB, men and women, races around the world, aborted foetuses and just about everything else. It is parody and almost always there is a clear point to their identity-jokes, almot always in an attempt to show why it is wrong or how absurd it is when taken to its extreme conclusion. I don’t think this is why the guy made that video, he wanted to show how clever he was, pointlessly provoke and offend people while building up youtube views and condition an animal to participate in hatespeech. It doesn’t mean I agree with his conviction, but Ricky Gervais and the South Park creators identity bashing is very very different to what this stupid asshole did on youtube, and I don’t think most British people sympathise with the video maker or care remotely enough about the idiot to protest his conviction. That doesn’t make the conviction reasonable, but its a lot more complex then you are leading on and again, other countries take a quite different approach to free speech than America does.

    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by  Davis.
    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by  Davis.
    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by  Davis.
    #8858

    David Boots
    Participant

    Absolutely. The problem is, these type of laws – just like blasphemy laws – are so vague and subjective they can be used for anything. Blasphemy laws have been used to seek petty revenge for disputes. They have been used to seek political advantage and to suppress opinions of all sort.

    #8880

    David Boots
    Participant

    Interesting story about another nazi mocking dog.

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