Use of the term People of Color (POC)

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This topic contains 73 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  jakelafort 1 year, 3 months ago.

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  • #51286


    Participant

    You pronounce Latinx to rhyme with “sphinx,” right?

    I believe it’s pronounced as the letter ‘X’ as you would in x-ray.

    We should do what we often do: default to the male term. We use “man” to represent mankind.

    That’s what is currently done and one of the reasons people want to do away with defaulting to Latino. One of the other reasons is to have a term for non-binary people.

    That said, etymologically ‘man’ as in ‘mankind’ is a gender neutral term. The words for ‘man’ and ‘woman’ were ‘wer’ and ‘wyf’ respectively. Somehow we ended up with the compound women (wif-man) but not an analogous ‘wer-man’ compound.

    Question: Are we supposed (according to the supposers) to jump ahead of the Spanish/Portuguese-speaking community and adopt these strange and unfamiliar modes of speaking even before they adopt them?

    If you want to show solidarity or consideration for people working toward change and the reasons they are doing it, sure, that’s one way to go.

    #51287

    Unseen
    Participant

    You pronounce Latinx to rhyme with “sphinx,” right?

    I believe it’s pronounced as the letter ‘X’ as you would in x-ray.

    We should do what we often do: default to the male term. We use “man” to represent mankind.

    That’s what is currently done and one of the reasons people want to do away with defaulting to Latino. One of the other reasons is to have a term for non-binary people. That said, etymologically ‘man’ as in ‘mankind’ is a gender neutral term. The words for ‘man’ and ‘woman’ were ‘wer’ and ‘wyf’ respectively. Somehow we ended up with the compound women (wif-man) but not an analogous ‘wer-man’ compound.

    Singling people out strikes me as less inclusive than using one term for all. Or, maybe we should go in the other direction to be even more granularly inclusive. A term for elderly queers, prematurely balding black men, another one for unmarried Pacific islanders. Which direction seems less insane?

    Question: Are we supposed (according to the supposers) to jump ahead of the Spanish/Portuguese-speaking community and adopt these strange and unfamiliar modes of speaking even before they adopt them?

    If you want to show solidarity or consideration for people working toward change and the reasons they are doing it, sure, that’s one way to go.

    Yeah, because we know better, right?

    Maybe we should all go home and let language evolve naturally. We adopted “Ms.” when it turned out most women thought it was a good thing. (We even gave them the period after Ms, for which there’s no reason other than because Mr. has one. You see, Ms. isn’t an abbreviation for anything or the short form of some other word. It was an invention.)

    #51288


    Participant

     

    Singling people out strikes me as less inclusive than using one term for all. Or, maybe we should go in the other direction to be even more granularly inclusive.

    I am not sure what you mean. ‘Latine’ doesn’t single people out any more than ‘Latino’.

    A term for elderly queers…

    Pretty sure the number of terms to describe the different flavours of gay and queer would blow your mind.

    Yeah, because we know better, right?

    No. Because we can be responsive to the initiative of people who are part of that culture. I can also recognize feminism and recognition of non-binary people independent of this specific language issue. It’s not my job to tell people who speak, Spanish, French, German, Italian (etc.) how to address the issue; however, for those who take it upon themselves to do so, I can follow their lead.

    #51289

    _Robert_
    Participant

    If honest mistakes with any pronoun ‘triggers’ someone to become angry, my new pronoun for them is the adjective “asshole”.  Reasonable accommodation is the glue of society. I have had non-binary bandmates and after a short while I got used to using their pronouns. My Cuban friend hates when people call him a Mexican, lol but otherwise he usually calls himself Hispanic. I prefer “great white master of the patriarch” myself but there is never room to fill that out on forms.

     

    #51290


    Participant

    If honest mistakes with any pronoun ‘triggers’ someone to become angry, my new pronoun for them is the adjective “asshole”.

    ‘Asshole’ is a proper noun. This is also weirdly thin-skinned of you*.

    *edit: the comment in this thread. I mean, if this were the subject of the conversation or a thing that was actually happening to you, whatever. But to go out of your way to make a point about how a non-binary person might wrong you so you can make a cheap pronoun joke… seriously, wtf?

    #51291

    Davis
    Moderator

    I propose POD for Muslims.

    Just when I thought I could get away from the vile bigotry of the last thread, its ugliness resurfaces. Not sure I want to be part of this forum anymore if every thread is going to be a discussion thread spreading and cheerleading bigotry.

    #51292

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Presenter of strategy
    Positivity obligation surety
    Promulgator of solutions
    Potentate of sagacity
    Pangloss operative slayer
    Prince of secularism

    Your turn.

    #51293


    Participant

    Prejudiced old slimeball.

    #51294

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Prakriti ombudsman statistician
    Pacified ossification savage
    Pensive opportunity salesperson
    Professional operating solver
    Passed over Socrates

    #51295

    Unseen
    Participant

    @ Anybody here

    Explain to me how developing unique terms to supplant the familiar ones is inclusive rather than divisive. It feels like relegating people to boxes (categories), each with their own highly specific terms, is hardly inclusive. “You’re not one of us, the majority white folks You’ve got your own category now. You’re a latinx. Feel you’re part of the club now?”

    #51296


    Participant

    @ Anybody here Explain to me how developing unique terms to supplant the familiar ones is inclusive rather than divisive.

    It’s not a unique term. The terms Latina and Latino exist as the masculine and feminine forms prior to the creation of Latinx and Latine. Both ‘Latinx’ and ‘Latine’ were patterned off of pre-existing language trends for making terms gender-neutral. To my understanding, ‘Latinx’ gets more criticism because the language trend it borrowed from is predominately English while the latter is more consistent with Spanish language patterns and is more intuitive to read and pronounce.

    “You’re not one of us, the majority white folks You’ve got your own category now. You’re a latinx. Feel you’re part of the club now?”

    Latinx and Latine didn’t create a new category. The term ‘Latino’ has existed for a long time in reference to Latin American people. It doesn’t exclude people from any other group to which they may also belong. The switch to a gender-neutral variant addresses two issues:

    1) Some people view defaulting to the masculine form for the collective noun as sexist.

    2) Non-binary people lacked a term that wasn’t gendered.

    The conjugation to a gender-neutral term is inclusive on both counts. Whether it is necessary in case 1 is not something I can weigh in on, yet I can be responsive to those making the case for change (just as I could refuse to do so).

    #51299

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I remember when Asians were as “Oriental” as the furniture. It is amazing how all these race and gender subjects have evolved so fast and have been dissected and analyzed in universities. Gonna take a while for folks in the South and Midwest to catch up, don’t you think? I wonder if even a centrist liberal would even have a chance getting through this course list without getting skewered alive. The HR department at my company was very focused on these subjects to the detriment of processing mundane health insurance problems or paycheck discrepancies. I went a year without my health insurance because they simply failed to send my forms in. Their office was decorated with enough Christmas jangle that had to cost way more than my medical bills which they refused to reimburse. Power to the people (except white males, of course). You would think there would be a bit of study of Islam’s treatment of women. Ooops, they missed that one.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Chicana and Chicano Studies
    Chicano M110/Gender M132A. Chicana Feminism
    Chicano M154/Gender M132B. Contemporary Issues among Chicanas
    Chicano/Gender M133. Chicana Lesbian Literature
    Chicano M135/Gender M135C. Bilingual Writing Workshop
    Chicano/Gender M144. Women’s Movement in Latin America
    Chicano M147/Gender M147C. Transnational Women’s Organizing in Americas
    Chicano M158/Gender M157. Chicana Historiography

    Gender Studies Course Listing
    Lower Division Courses
    10. Introduction to Gender Studies

    Upper Division Core Courses
    102. Power
    103. Knowledge
    104. Bodies
    187. Research Seminar

     

    Upper Division Elective Courses
    108. Violence against Women
    112. Special Topics in Women and the Arts
    113. Sex Work
    120. Internship in Gender Studies
    122. Masculinities
    123. Latin American Women in Film
    125. Women and Healthcare in the U.S.
    129. Caribbean Women
    130. Women of Color in the U.S.
    131. Feminist Politics in Korea and the Diaspora
    134. Gender, Science, and Theory
    138. Gender and Popular Culture
    139. Women and Art in Contemporary U.S.
    142. Race, Gender, and Punishment
    145. African American Women’s History
    156A. History of Women in the U.S.: Rebellious Women of the 20th Century
    171A. Women, Gender, and Law: Jurisprudence of Sexual Equality
    185. Special Topics in Gender Studies
    195. Community or Corporate Internships in Gender Studies
    197. Individual Studies in Gender Studies
    198A-198B-198C. Honors Research in Gender Studies
    199. Directed Research in Gender Studies

    Cross-Listed Courses Outside Department Course # – GS Course # – Title
    Afro-American Studies
    Afro-Am/Gender M109. Women in Jazz
    Afro-Am/Gender M172. Afro-American Woman in U.S.
    Afro-Am M179A. Slavery and Black Women Writers

    Anthropology
    Anthro/Gender M151. Marriage, Family, and Kinship
    Anthro/Gender M154P. Gender Systems: North America
    Anthro/Gender M154Q. Gender Systems: Global
    Anthro/Gender M155. Women’s Voices: Their Critique of Anthropology of Japan
    Anthro/Gender M155Q. Women and Social Movements

    Art History
    Art His 110J. Feminism and French Art

    Asian American Studies
    Asia Am/Gender M164. Women, Violence, Globalization: India, Philippines, Singapore, Vietnam

    Classics
    Classic 169. Sex in the Ancient World

    Communication Studies
    Comm St/Gender M149. Media: Gender, Race, Class, and Sexuality

    Comparative Literature
    Com Lit/Gender CM170 CM170. Alternate Traditions: In Search of Female Voices in Contemporary Literature

    Disability Studies
    Dis Std/Gender M121. Topics in Gender and Disabilities

    Education
    Educ147. LGBTS Issue in Education and Law
    Educ/Gender M148. Women in Higher Education
    Educ/Gender CM178. Critical Media Literacy and Politics of Gender
    Educ/Gender CM178L. Critical Media Literacy and Politics of Gender: Laboratory

    English
    Engl M101A/Gender M105A. Premodern Queer Literatures and Cultures
    Engl M101B/Gender M105B. Queer Literatures and Cultures, 1850 to 1970
    Engl M101C/Gender M105C. Queer Literatures and Cultures after 1970
    Engl M101D/Gender M105D. Studies in Queer Literatures and Cultures
    Engl/Gender M107A. Studies in Women’s Writing
    Engl/Gender M107B. Studies in Gender and Sexuality
    Engl/Gender M126. Feminist and Queer Theory
    Engl 183C. Pornography and Politics of Sexual Representation
    Engl/Gender M191D. Topics in Queer Literatures and Cultures
    Engl/Gender M191E. Topics in Gender and Sexuality

    Ethnomusicology
    Ethnomu/Gender M109. Women in Jazz

    Film and Television
    Film TV/Gender M111. Women and Film

    Geography
    Geog/Gender M146. Feminist Geography

    Gerontology
    Grntlgy/Gender M104C. Diversity in Aging: Roles of Gender and Ethnicity

    History
    Hist/Gender M133A-M133B. History of Women in Europe
    Hist/Gender M133C. History of Prostitution
    Hist M147C/Gender M147B. History of Women in Colonial British America and Early U.S., 1600 to 1860
    Hist/Gender M147D. History of Women in U.S., 1860 to 1980
    Hist M151D/Gender M157. Chicana Historiography
    Hist/Gender M173B. Women in 20th-Century Japan
    Hist/Gender M180B. Historical Perspectives on Gender and Science
    Hist M187A/Gender M186A. Global Feminism, 1850 to the Present

    Honors Collegium
    Hnrs/Gender M106. Imaginary Women

    Labor and Workplace Studies
    Lbr&WS/Gender M114. Women’s Movement in Latin America
    Lbr&WS/Gender M149. Media: Gender, Race, Class, and Sexuality

    Languages
    German M107/Gender M108. Love and Sex in German Literary Tradition
    German M105/Gender M119. Tristan, Isolde, and History of Heterosexuality
    Russian M127/Gender M127. Women in Russian Literature
    French/Gender M140. Women’s Studies in French Literature
    Italian/GenderM 158. Women, Gender, and Sexuality in Italian Culture
    Scandinavian CM144A/Gender M186. Voices of Women in Nordic Literature

    Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Studies
    LGBTS M101A/Gender M105A. Premodern Queer Literatures and Cultures
    LGBTS M101B/Gender M105B. Queer Literatures and Cultures, 1850 to 1970
    LGBTS M101C/Gender M105C. Queer Literatures and Cultures after 1970
    LGBTS M101D/Gender M105D. Studies in Queer Literatures and Cultures
    LGBTS/Gender M107B. Studies in Gender and Sexuality
    LGBTS/Gender M114. Introduction to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Studies
    LGBTS/Gender M115. Topics in Study of Sexual and Gender Orientation
    LGBTS/Gender M116. Sexuality and the City: Queer Los Angeles
    LGBTS/Gender M118. Queering American History
    LGBTS/Gender M126. Feminist and Queer Theory
    LGBTS/Gender M133. Chicana Lesbian Literature
    LGBTS/Gender M147A. Psychology of Lesbian Experience
    LGBTS/Gender M167. Contested Sexualities
    LGBTS/Gender M191D. Topics in Queer Literatures and Cultures
    LGBTS/Gender M191E. Topics in Gender and Sexuality

    Music History
    Mus Hst/Gender M136. Music and Gender

    Philosophy
    Philos M187/Gender M110C. Philosophical Analysis of Issues in Feminist Theory

    Political Science
    Pol Sci M107/Gender M117. Women and Politics

    Psychology
    Psych/Gender M137E. Work Behavior of Women and Men
    Psych/Gender M147A. Psychology of Lesbian Experience
    Psych/Gender M165. Psychology of Gender
    Pysch/Gender M172. Afro-American Woman in U.S.

    Social Welfare
    Soc Wlf/Gender M104C. Diversity in Aging: Roles of Gender and Ethnicity

    Sociology
    Sociol/Gender M162. Sociology of Gender
    Sociol/Gender M163. Gender and Work
    Sociol/Gender M164. Politics of Reproduction
    Sociol/Gender M166. Women in Socialist and Post-Socialist States
    Sociol/Gender M174. Sociology of the Family

    Urban Planning
    Urbn Pl/Gender M175. Women and Cities

    World Arts and Cultures
    WL Arts CM140/Gender CM143. Women Healers, Ritual, and Transformation

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I should go for a PHD in gender studies and do a dissertation of how Islam has fucked women and queers for centuries, LOL.

    #51302

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers,

    I recently received a survey from a firm contracted by the hospital where I stayed. In addition to questions about the quality of my care, I also was asked about my “Race” and “Ethnicity.”

    My reply to both questions was: “I am not interested in stupid prizes, so I am not playing stupid games. My ‘Race’ and ‘Ethnicity’ are irrelevant to my healthcare.”

    In retrospect, I should have given an equally witty and pithy reply to the question of whether I was Hispanic. “Since English is a blend of cognates of both Romantic languages–of which Spanish is one–and Germanic languages, all English speakers use some Spanish.” 😁

    Maybe one day, sooner than we think, CRISPR can give us the option of chameleon bodies and Google Translate can work in real time as part of the ambience like the Star Trek Universal Translator. We can already change our appearance in online Avatars and on VR programs like Second Life and Skyrim. Maybe those will be real-life features too.

    Then we can say to each other, in every tongue from Amharic to Pig Latin to Klingon, while changing pelts and hairstyle while-you-wait: “Remember when people thought this shit actually mattered? Fun times…”
    😁🙋🏻‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋🏿‍♂️🙋🏼‍♂️🙋🏼‍♂️🙋🏻‍♀️🙋🏼‍♀️🙋🏽‍♀️🙋🏿‍♀️

    #51303

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Robert i am sure it is just an oversight. Why tackle the real issues? It is messy and it offends too many in their ranks. Reminds me how on one occasion and one only i wrote a letter to editor. Skeptical Inquirer. Gist was how the hell are you gonna be so legit in challenging fringe and yet so cowardly in omitting God. No response.

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