Why Atheists Need Guns

[jakelafortParticipant]

Oh fuck…also for pain.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I think I will create a new Group and I will try to answer those questions there.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

[Belle RoseParticipant]

@Reg I have been a regular user of weed for about 40 years. I have never known anyone to be addicted to it.

I most DEFINITELY was! 😂

@Reg

The CNN video makes some good points that should be difficult to argue against. When fully trained and war hardened Marines have to adhere to stricter gun restrictions than untrained 18 year olds you have to ask “Is this really a developed country?

 

Not anymore!!!!!! We’re a third world country with shiny streets.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by  Belle Rose.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@Belle Rose – I most DEFINITELY was! 

Did you find the withdrawal process painful? If you consume some now do you end up plotting to rob pizza delivery vans of all their pizzas and desserts?

We’re a third world country with shiny streets.

I like that line.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Guns blazing rambling thoughts about marijuana and addiction…

Dualism is an inherent feeling and it is embedded in our thinking and language. So the idea that marijuana and its addictive qualities are separate from lets say oxy and its addictive qualities is perhaps inaccurate or misleading. Sure withdrawal from oxy is a fucking nightmare. Same for alcohol and a host of drugs. However the putative differentiation in marijuana addiction and withdrawal as being purely psychological plays into the notions of dualism. From a casual perusal of the literature it appears persons with so called marijuana misuse disorder do have physical effects from stopping albeit not on a par with the bad shit. On the other hand i maintain without proof that all psychological effects are physical. At the molecular level psychology is illuminated as having physical causation.

Even serious coffee drinkers who stop consuming it have minor physical withdrawal symptoms. I was gonna say that nobody has ever died from marijuana overdose whereas caffeine overdose has caused death. However a woman of 39 years in 2019 is thought to have died as a result of consuming too much THC. It is safe to say that both coffee and marijuana have wonderful properties and either no lethality or nearly none. The addictive quality of each and the seriousness of withdrawal symptoms is comparatively mild.

Why? We know serious drugs that cause serious addiction are killing tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands each year. So it is my hunch that we are evolved to have biology that is compatible with substances that have beneficial health properties. The greater the harm of the substance the worse the addiction and withdrawal and of course ease of death by overdose. (21 day hiatus and ground zero is cool beans and indicative of the mild nature of Mary Jane)

It is interesting that the way addiction is conceived has evolved. It used to be exclusively thought to be derived from the particular danger of the activity: gambling, sex, work, drugs. Each has it’s risks. Fuck with the bull you get the horn. Currently there is a shift towards the idea that the expression of the particular addiction is just a manifestation of the addict’s biology. I doubt either is correct. It has to be some of each i think…

[Belle RoseParticipant]

@Reg

Did you find the withdrawal process painful? If you consume some now do you end up plotting to rob pizza delivery vans of all their pizzas and desserts?

IMHO that’s a very narrow and incomplete view of what addiction is. Just because I’m not writhing in pain or committing a crime – doesn’t mean I wasn’t seriously addicted- I was. I’m not saying marijuana is bad. I LOVE smoking weed! But there was a time in my life I was seriously addicted to it. If I’m not careful I could easily be again.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Addiction?

I used dope almost every day in college. When college was in rear view and law school began i quit cold turkey. Don’t
remember any withdrawal, craving it or even thinking about it. When law school was over and passed the bar decided to open an office with my cousin who had just passed the bar. There were a few who thought i was a gambling addict and that gambling addiction would be in dereliction of attorneyhood. In 15 years I may have skipped the office 4 or 5 times to play the ponies. Played more golf than that.

The way definitions of disorders morph suggests we haven’t a handle on many disorders including addiction. Smoking butts seems to grab most of the long time users by the nuts. Try to quit. Fail. Try again. Fail. But it is gonna lead to an early death! Give me my butts and stfu.

What makes an addict?

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@Belle Rose – I LOVE smoking weed!

Do you still smoke it and if so do you still consider yourself addicted? If you don’t think you are addicted now (which I think is the case) then what has changed?

 

 

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@jakelafort – What makes an addict?

In my non-professional opinion people become addicts because they have unresolved issues that they have not yet addressed. They don’t get addressed while under the influence of alcohol or drugs (or whatever your having yourself).

I know plenty of people who consume all types of drugs on an occasional basis. They live fully functional lives with no problem. In fact most of them are very health conscious and very fit people. Most of them so not consume alcohol and never when using any type of drug. Alcohol is a downer and not a pleasant “buzz”. Never mix alcohol and drugs.

I have a friend who would gamble at least 5K a week. It is a job for him. He has partners and an office. I help him lay some bets at the weekend and have often counted out the equivalent of €150K on my kitchen table on a Saturday evening.  They see that as a good days work. It’s “par for the course”. Some days they might only have a single small bet. Between them they have cleared a minimum of $600K per year for the last 15 years. People with gambling addictions are soon broke. People that treat it a job general win over time because they don’t get greedy or lose their perspective.

The best advice I would give someone is to not listen to the language many “professionals” and those from the schools of Quackademia use – that is, the terms “give it up” and “you need willpower”.

Telling someone to “give up (say) smoking” is bad advice. When you stop smoking you are not making a sacrifice. There is nothing to ‘give up’. As soon as you stop smoking you become a non smoker. What is the worst thing that will happen you if you never smoke again? The other instruction they give is “you need willpower”. Both these approaches create the wrong mindset from the beginning.

Such advice leaves you thinking it is a major ordeal. You have to make a sacrifice and you need to be mentally strong from the outset in order to achieve some goal at an undefined time in the future. When you stop a bad habit is does not need to be replaced with anything else.

I think it is better to start with the mindset that “I never have to smoke (or drink) again”. Then be aware of the times and triggers that made you want to have a drink or a smoke. It does not take willpower to have a coffee and not smoke a cigarette. That awareness is what makes us mentally stronger. You already decided that you wanted to be a non-smoker. As soon as you stopped you became one. Getting the idea of needing willpower to do anything (or to not do something) is an enfeebling attitude. You don’t need a crutch or prop, like the AA’s god or the $250 Goop crystal hucksters would try to convince you of. Be happy with your own decision and move on. Give yourself the credit.

But weed is not addictive. A few tokes to enhance your senses to enhance a good movie or music or art or even sex is no big deal. Some CBD to help with muscle pain? Better than Advil. Good weed also holds a mirror up to yourself. When you are in the “lost track of time” phase and you think about how you treated people or they you or how to approach some problem you will now be able to address the issue (if there is one) and fix it. You cannot lie to yourself when you are stoned. There is no “hiding place” like there is when using alcohol or hard drugs. If you try to then you might feel paranoid. If sometimes I still get a little bit paranoid and am not sure why, I just say OK, I am a little paranoid for some silly reason but who gives a F**K. I wont be in a minutes’ time when I get up and get some OJ!

• This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by  Reg the Fronkey Farmer.

[Belle RoseParticipant]

@Reg

Do you still smoke it and if so do you still consider yourself addicted? If you don’t think you are addicted now (which I think is the case) then what has changed?

I don’t smoke anymore (except when my ex-Mormon friend came into town recently and wanted to try weed for the first time 🙂

If I started regularly smoking weed again I would very quickly become addicted again. Nothing has changed. I’m not a “take it or leave it” type of person 😂….hooray for those who can be like that! I most definitely am not one of them.

• This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by  Belle Rose.

[UnseenParticipant]

@Reg

How long do you think you could go without any weed?

Years ago, I needed a medical test that required me to take no alcohol for a period of time. My doctor asked me if I thought I could do it. I said, “If I can’t, I’m an alcoholic.”

I stopped cold turkey. Now, what the doctor didn’t know is that I was a fairly heavy user who’d have two stiff ones upon coming home at dinnertime and a few more at bedtime and maybe one or two more in between. Even so, I stopped and experienced no withdrawal.

In fact, I stayed off for about a year and, realizing I wasn’t addicted, started up again. Since then, I have some alcohol before going to bed, except when I’m feeling ill or just want to go straight to bed because I’m beat. The only exception is the RARE special occasion, as when I have family visiting and we are eating out. Even then, it’s pretty restrained drinking. A beer, a glass or two of wine. (I don’t like drinking during the day or even the evening, because it makes me sleepy.)

About six or seven years ago, I broke three ribs in a biking accident and because you can’t stabilize ribs with a cast, one just has to suffer through a lot of pain. For that, my doctor issued a prescription for 90 Norcos (brand name of hydrocodone+Tylenol) with instructions to take two caplets every 4-6 hours as needed for pain and then taper off. I soon was taking one and then a half caplet but complained to my doctor that discomfort made it hard to sleep. “You’re taking your prescription, aren’t you?” “Yes, but I’m taking half caplets now. “Well at least double that. That’s what the Norco is for!” Then, she issued another script for 90 more. (This was before the big blowup over oxycodone being pushed so hard that it resulted in tens of thousands of addicts who turned to street drugs. I doubt if she’d be writing such generous prescriptions nowadays and would probably supervise a patient more.)

In the end, I used all of the second prescription except maybe a dozen or so which I used sparingly in the following year or so as the occasional sleep aid, often a half caplet at a time which, with a little alcohol in the system, is very effective and won’t kill you.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I simply don’t have what I call “the addiction gene.”

Addiction to weed is probably more psychological than physical, but are you curious to try going off it for, say, a month just to see how your body and mind react?

[jakelafortParticipant]

@Reg

In my non-professional opinion people become addicts because they have unresolved issues that they have not yet addressed. They don’t get addressed while under the influence of alcohol or drugs (or whatever your having yourself).

In my half-baked take let the sugar addicts eat cake. Addict has to be defined. I haven’t read or heard a definition that is completely satisfactory. However your ideas about unresolved issues will not apply to the rats who pull the cocaine lever instead of the food. You’ve read about that experiment i am pretty sure. I anthropomorphize like a mutha but i aint buying unresolved issues for rats. Yeah this is about homo sapiens.

And then there are the myriad instances where substances like alcohol and nicotine and oxy become an irresistible dependency. In my practice i saw various people sustain an injury and begin to use oxy to manage the pain and then become addicted. I know that scenario plays out a lot. And alcohol is a fairly universal intoxicant which appears to be a trap for those who are genetically predisposed to alchoholism. So i doubt unresolved issues is an explanation for the onset of addiction in many people. Once somebody for whatever reason begins to use an addictive substance there is a chance their unique physiology will result in addiction. But i get the notion of hiding from the pain or sense of being conflicted by losing oneself in a stupor.

No question many people are recreational drug users some of whom eschew alcohol and lead productive lives. No apparent downside to the drug use. As far as the buzz given by alcohol i hardly drink but every
once in a while when i do i find it a good buzz. The aftermath sucks if you drink too much unless you are cursed with the physiology of the alcoholics who do not pay with hangovers.

In terms of gambling on horse racing it is my understanding that only a tiny percentage win long term. I assume that has changed in recent years as algorithms have surpassed human assessment and software is utilized that exploits overlay in all of the pools and makes last second wagers en masse giving the computer players (consortiums) unfair advantages.

But you are right that the gamblers who are addicts are losing losing losing and from my experience either never try to learn or are utilizing “systems” that are for suckers. I once attended a seminar that related to my main area of law which is bankruptcy and specifically the dischargeability of credit card cash advances used to gamble. Bottom line conclusion was that inveterate losers are addicts. That reminds me of a shrink turned handicapping author named Sartin. He had patients who were gambling addicts and he devised a method to beat the horses that he taught to his patients. I don’t remember whether the patients became winners.

I like your approach to quitting cigarette smoking.

From what i have read weed is addictive to a minority of users with so called marijuana misuse disorder. I really do not know if that is true. The idea you’ve indicated of good weed as a mirror and a way to address issues is my introduction to the notion. That is pretty fucking cool.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen, it appears you see addiction as i do. Some are genetically predisposed to addiction. Of course if we are correct there is the question as to whether it is a generally addictive personality or a susceptibility to only one or a few forms of addiction.

I just take issue with the dichotomy between physical and psychological.

Reg is clearly not an addict of weed. He takes regular hiatuses intentionally.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@unseen – How long do you think you could go without any weed?

In my early 20’s I was a bit of a fiend as were all my friends at the time. We lived in squats in different countries and went to most of the outdoor music festivals.  But I managed to “keep it together” and had some well paid jobs.

One morning I got bored with the whole scene and just walked away and went back to the ‘regular world’. I stopped using weed and anything else that same day. Adjusting to regular routines was the biggest pain.

I don’t use much weed now. When I do it is very high quality and “I know the farmer” that grows it 🙂

I roll a small pinner without any tobacco. I never smoke on the days I run a 5K. Not smoking for 3 weeks would be the minimum. I might go for a few months without even thinking about it. Then I might smoke 3 nights in a row while binging a Netflix show.

But if I was to never smoke weed again I would not be bothered. I don’t need it. I just like how it can enhance my perception and lead me down different pathways of thought that can give me insights I may not have arrived at otherwise. I seldom drink alcohol. At most I might have a small glass of red wine at Thanksgiving or a glass of JWB on Hitchens birthday, if I remember it. I still have the same bottle of 20 year old I bought 8 years ago! I reckon I have consumed less alcohol in the last 12 years that many people consume on a party weekend. I know I can go into a bar and drink all night if I want to but I just don’t. I don’t have the time or energy for the hangover. I am no longer bullet proof, like when I was 18 (I mean 21!)

I can live without weed no problem but I don’t intend to. It is one of life’s simple pleasures.

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