You Must Believe This – Hitch

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This topic contains 46 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  TheEncogitationer 1 month ago.

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  • #31210

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Hi Pope. Hope you have not been offended when i have called you Bean Man. Bean Man was a stoner from my college…super cool guy.

    My background is different. Never indoctrinated and father who is extremely bright, is an outspoken atheist who i observed in debates with various theists and professors and he always dismantled them. Once at a wedding the groom had a threesome of Jesuits come by to test him. It did not end well for the Jesuits. So from my perspective there is nothing strident about Dawkins or Hitchens.

    My point is that the absurdity of the religious proposition makes it an easy target. I understand that may seem far-fetched if one is indoctrinated. But without the indoctrination and just a modicum of education it is on a par with critique of Santa Clause.

    As to whether a strident atheist is most effective in causing apostasy i can’t say. I suspect that that the personality of the theist determines the best approach. I observed my strident father deconvert my strongly Catholic cousin at age 12 in five minutes. My cousin has gone on to be a lawyer/judge and is quite learned. Without the encounter he may have never reached his potential. At same time i am sure many would have completely shut down like a gf of mine once did when confronted by my dad.

    Yes, Trump supporters are frustrating. Very likely their religious background predisposes them to follow him. And the analogy of theists and T supporters is straight up. That is why i think of his supporters (not all, some supporters do it for their perceived financial advantage) as cultists. I think you were looking for invective.

    Flying pigs is a modification of an aphorism…if pigs had wings they would fly. Two things are conveyed. One is probably unconscious in expressing my sympathy for animals who are slaughtered for food…the other is the idea that history unfolds as it has and the what if speculation is neither here nor there…sort of a reproach for my query whether history would have unfolded similarly without Abrahamic religions.

    #31211

    _Robert_
    Participant

    …..when I’m trying like hell but mostly failing at having a reasonable, two-way dialog with those who so deeply worship Trump.

    Yes, I relate to that. I play in some rock bands. This virus has turned some members into tRump fanatics, miracle cure advocates, 2nd amendment wing nuts, WHO haters, Chinese conspiracy dimwits all at once. Not sure I care to play music with them anymore. They will soon break curfew to assemble and I will not be part of it.

    #31212

    A guy in the queue outside my local store (2m separation) asked me if I would take a Covid 19 vaccine when it was introduced. I said “Yes and I would recommend my family and friends to do the same.”

    “But that could be very dangerous as you don’t even know what “they” have put in it. I mean would you not wait at least a few months to hear about the side effects of it first? They can contain mercury and can overload your immune system making  you weaker to other infections in the future. My friend was telling me….”

    Excuse me,  You are wrong about mercury. That does not happen. Vaccines do not overload the immune system. That is fake scaremongering news spread by people with no medical knowledge and definitely no knowledge of immunology.  We can know exactly what “they” put in it and if you want to know then refer to a proper Science based website.

    Oh, Science is it? Right then. Well I would not allow my children to get them. They need to build up their own resistance naturally. That is why children don’t need the annual flu jab.

    Sometimes they do.

    No, not children. You are wrong.

    Have you any evidence to support that claim? (I better get that on a t-shirt and just point to it).

    You hear these things you know and they can’t all be wrong.

    I don’t take widely held opinion as a form of wisdom. I go with the evidence.

    15 seconds later I handed him my phone to read this story.

    He handed it back to me but could think of nothing to say. I wiped the phone down with a sanitizer wipe. He had fully turned to face me when he handed it back. Then I saw the cross around his neck.

    End of conversation though I did want to ask him what the “T” stood for.

     

     

    #31213

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Good story Reg…bang bang finish.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200410162410.htm

    It is funny how anti-vaxxers are skeptics in this one area but they are all-in on God!

    #31214

    JadeBlackOlive
    Participant

    When they get a good vaccine, I’m there!

    #31215

    It is funny how anti-vaxxers are skeptics in this one area but they are all-in on God!

    Yes, a good mixture of “doublethink” and “Cognitive Bias” in the same person.

    Good article on Anti vax. I read a similar one in Sunday School recently.

    (Sorry man, could not resist)

    #31216

    They also have no problem explaining what is wrong with the dead god religions of the past. They understand the primitive nature of those peoples and why they believed as they did. They can often cast a cold critical eye on the fallacies of other faiths yet when it comes to their own beliefs, they revert to using a 14th century mindset.  They have no idea that they do this but it is obvious to us that they do. But nobody can see that themselves as being deluded until they learn to change how they think. They only do that when they get the courage to question what they have doubts. That is the one good thing about COVID. It is forcing people to have “alone time” and think their own thoughts through without the pastor telling them what to think.  When they look back they always wonder “How could I have believed that?” But that is all part of the process. Reality is just how you see the world.

    #31217

    jakelafort
    Participant

    That is okay Reg, shoot me in the nuts, kick me up the ass. i am good like that. Hey, it is only recently and grudgingly have begun to read ANY sunday school articles. That is how religious i am about not being religious. I have turned it into a religion. Just the association (sunday school) is enough to have me retch.

    Saw a video that followed that story in the taiga about the sole surviving daughter. So she knows how many years ago Adam was born and she wields an axe like nobody’s biz…and when she gets gifts of food that have bar code on she refuses cuz ya know…that is a sign of the devil.

    #31218

    I kept the name Sunday School after the original post. Doing it “religiously” for over 350 Sundays at this point. I kept it in case religious people typed it in as a search in the hope they would land here.  The “top half” is generally about the abuse of religious privilege and the rest is Science and “non atheist” stuff with a few video and book suggestions. But I am happy to get any feedback, negative or positive. There are no exams though :-).

    #31219

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Saint Pete is gonna be pissed dafuq off when the time comes.

    I got nuthin negative to say…glad to know there is a good rationale for the name…any ballyachin is idiosyncratic.

    #31233

    michael17
    Participant

    I think Hitch summarizes the atheistic perspective that I have been hearing.

    Meanwhile supernatural occurrence are occurring practically every day at Skinwalker Ranch and the public can watch  the real time transmission from the surveillance cameras through the History Channel site. The ranch is scientifically instrumented to also capture radiation and electromagnetic anomalies and has recently recruited a  distinguished ex-NASA scientist and University professor.

    The Amazing Randy nominated investigations at the Ranch for a dubious waste award, yet the anomalous data and footage keep coming in.

     

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    #31238

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Michael, tell us how the occurrences at the ranch align with prophecy.

    #31239

    Davis
    Moderator

    No Michael. Hictchens does not summarize the “atheist perspective”. That is a meaningless term. There is NO atheist perspective. Atheists represent billions of people around the world, many of whom have never heard of Hitchens or his arguments. If you must generalize (which you shouldn’t) then you should be referring to “New Atheists” and absolutely nothing more. And Michael you are not the only person guilty of this on this site. Multiple users repeatedly refer to atheism and atheists as the kind of people you find in Anglo-Saxon countries with a humanist perspective. That is a fraction of atheists and you should stop doing that. I admire Hitchens very much but he was NOT a spokesman for atheism but a narrow brand of outspoken resistance to God believers. Do not mix up “atheists” with Anglo-Saxon-New-Atheists. The first includes billions, many completely disinterested in these debates. The second is a narrow fraction with a narrative many here support.

    #31240

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Davis, in fairness to Michael, he did say…the atheist perspective that I HAVE BEEN HEARING.

    But you are of course correct that it is far from a monolithic perspective. I don’t know that it is true but i hope that in general atheists are more apt to question authority, to be skeptical, to eschew faith and insist on reason, and to have a greater appreciation of the here and now.

    #31241

    michael17
    Participant

    Michael, tell us how the occurrences at the ranch align with prophecy.

    It aligns with “Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.”- Luke 21:26

    Though this is small potatoes  and a barely perceptible “birth pain”

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
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