Kuba Adamów
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D replied to the topic An atheist can't believe in free will in the forum Small Talk 2 years, 10 months ago
Yeah, it seems like we have “agency”; but is it real? Probably not, but the best answer is that we simply don’t know yet.
Agency is as real and meaningful as: decision, responsibility, culpability, power structures, invention, reward, retribution, entitlement, ownership, merit etc. Dismiss one…you should dismiss them all. If one is meani…[Read more]
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Davis replied to the topic Sunday School 7th January 2024. in the forum
Sunday School 2 years, 10 months agoYou keep using two different kinds of language as though “control” is meaningful if “choice” is meaningless.
If free will is an illusion, then control is an illusion (as is morality or consequence). That’s fine, I’m not saying with any certainty any of that exist. But it is ridiculous to dismiss meaningful choice, and still hold onto anything…[Read more]
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D replied to the topic Are the lefties destroying America? A debate topic. in the forum Politics 2 years, 10 months ago
Nah not going to watch a bullshit video with a bullshit title. Civilisation is not being destroyed. At worst, some things we consider important are being chipped away at. We are far from “destroyed”. The very language of the title of this video screams “watching this will rot your brain”.
The left nor the right is not destroying anything. A lack…[Read more]
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Davis replied to the topic Sunday School 31st December 2023 in the forum
Sunday School 2 years, 10 months agoI wouldn’t exactly characterise, as a whole, the hundreds of millions of atheists in China, as free thinkers. Atheism does not equal Western, Educated, Sceptical, Freethinking Humanism.
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Sunday School 24th December 2023 in the forum
Sunday School 2 years, 10 months agoI think the Prisoner’s Dilemma captures situations where trust is required in order for both sides to walk away with a payoff – to create a positive sum result. In this situation, trust is everything. The incentive is to trust.
I don’t think it captures collaboration per se. In collaboration, trust is also required to reach a positive sum re…[Read more]
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Davis replied to the topic Sunday School 24th December 2023 in the forum
Sunday School 2 years, 10 months agoWe encounter scenarios like the prisoners dilemma more often than you think. And these test your integrity to your values when under pressure. At work two of us were at fault with a client, if we admit the error the client had a very tiny chance of being badly affected but guaranteed to complain and create problems for everyone and harm the…[Read more]
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Simon Paynton and
unapologetic are now friends 2 years, 10 months ago
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Sunday School 24th December 2023 in the forum
Sunday School 2 years, 10 months agoReg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:
What The Prisoner’s Dilemma reveals about Life.This is an interesting exploration, not necessarily of the Prisoner’s Dilemma, which I think has limited application in the real world (interpersonally) – but of tit-for-tat reciprocity, which is what we do all the time. What should I do in response to someone el…[Read more]
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
It’s been a very productive exchange. By putting my theory to the test, I’ve been able to improve it no end.
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
I know I disparage the other moral systems for not being able to provide consistent, coherent answers. But they have done an excellent job of delineating the moral landscape, and asking the right questions. Utilitarianism is fairly simple to implement if it is formulated correctly (i.e., forget “the greatest good for the greatest number”). It…[Read more]
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D replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
Rob, the person who does whatever the hell he wants when it suits his needs, still reverts to his own set of values when the following happens:
When someone insults him
When he reads about someone being the victim of a miscarriage of justice
When he agrees/disagrees with his scheduled surgery being postponed because someone more urgent has been…[Read more]
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
_Robert_ wrote:
A guy robbing a store or buying a child-bride isn’t spending a lot of time “pontificating” moral principles.True, but there’s a whole science behind it, which is interesting. People spend their entire careers on it, getting nowhere.
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
Unseen wrote:
I have some doubts as to whether coherent, consistent, and practical moral philosophy is even possible.So you admit that your “real” moral systems are not real.
It’s never going to be possible to provide nice neat answers to moral dilemmas. Life just isn’t like that. Morality isn’t like that.
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
Unseen wrote:
I’m not going to reread everything you wrote to make sure, but I don’t recall you ever using the term “justice.” Rawls defined justice as fairness, another term I don’t recall you ever using.Well, your recall is mistaken, I said them both right there.
“Always do what promotes the welfare and/or happiness of the group. Or don’t.”
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
Davis wrote:
thinking through a little more on what sets it apart from others. I would focus less on “competing” with other moral systems, and disparaging other systems and instead coming up with a more convincing reason for others to take yours more seriously.I’m not studying how to compete with and disparage the other moral systems. I’m stud…[Read more]
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D replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
Simon, I do have to say that you’ve certainly gained a much stronger understanding of common moral systems and the development of moral thought, but I think you still need to spend some time working out some of the concepts of your system, and thinking through a little more on what sets it apart from others. I would focus less on “competing” with…[Read more]
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
Unseen wrote:
Rawls’s philosophy is yours turned inside out and upside down. Whereas you emphasize the individual’s duty to society, he’s all about society’s duty to the individual.You don’t talk about justice at all.
I talk about justice, but interpersonal justice.
you = me (basis of fairness and justice). Without the group, without we > me,…
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
Unseen wrote:
Do you agree with Rawls’s “Each person possesses an inviolability founded on justice that even the welfare of society as a whole cannot override”?I’m not sure what the welfare of society means. If it means “what my society wants me to do” or “what is in the interests of a possibly corrupt society”, then that may be attemp…[Read more]
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Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
Unseen wrote:
And yet, you seem to imply that joint goals are ipso facto good. If joint goals are better than individual goals, then ultimately the only goal worth putting our minds to is the one that benefits the entire human community, even if it dooms our own component community. Well, how do you convince me to bury my family, friends,… -
Simon Paynton replied to the topic Where does morality come from? – My take. in the forum Atheism 2 years, 10 months ago
But then, the questions of why people are cruel for emotional gain, and deceptive for material gain, are interesting in themselves.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12144-023-04765-0
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