AMERICA IS LOST.

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This topic contains 65 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Autumn 3 days, 22 hours ago.

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  • #43069

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Like Hispanics can’t be racist against non-Hispanics and like Hispanics can’t be racist against each other, especially when Hispanics can look like anyone from Christina Aguilera to Péle.

    Already, you’ve started out wrong. Start again.

    #43070

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, Like Hispanics can’t be racist against non-Hispanics and like Hispanics can’t be racist against each other, especially when Hispanics can look like anyone from Christina Aguilera to Péle. Already, you’ve started out wrong. Start again.

    I take your point, but this is not a case of, say, a Puerto Rican killing Filipino kids. I think all involved are Mexican-Americans. Can a Mexican-American  be racist against his own race. I think the notion is more theoretical than likely.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Unseen.
    #43071

    Unseen
    Participant

    Who are they the NRA donating to? While I don’t have my sources listed here, I am sure they are easy to verify. They donate over $400K per year to Ted Cruz for his campaigning. Or I could say they buy Ted Cruz for over $400K a year to be their political mouthpiece. If he was to stop doing their bidding the NRA would immediately turn their backs on him and “sponsor” another candidate to replace him at the next election. About 90% of the U.S. electorate supports background checks (HB2). OK, found some references here.

    Sorry. I understood “donation” to be charitable in nature, possibly to victims. Had you said “contribution” (as in “campaign contribution”), I would have caught your meaning.

    #43072

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers,

    Watch, read, and learn:

    Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school
    https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683

    https://mobile.twitter.com/paleofuture/status/1529669808228294656

    The Flatfoots in Uvalde, Texas not only didn’t burn one donut calorie to save these 19 murdered children and 2 murdered adults and 17 others injured, not only were all the slaughtered stuck in one room and shot like in a carnival gallery, but these Flatfoots also forced parents behind a barricade to keep them from rescuing those inside!!!

    And all the Goddamn Congresscritters ultimately want to take the firearms of peaceful, law-abiding Citizens and confine all gun ownership to the Police and Military???

    Fuck those Flatfoots and fuck those Congresscritters! They both need suing and imprisonment for violating our Bill of Rights and for keeping innocent Citizens from protecting their own lives and the lives of their loved ones!

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling. Easy to miss when angry
    #43075

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers,

    Oh, and the school’s back door was open and ready for anybody with evil intent to come inside:

    Unlocked Door in Uvalde School Shooting Raises Questions About Texas Safety Requirements
    https://www.kxan.com/investigations/unlocked-door-in-uvalde-school-shooting-raises-questions-about-texas-safety-requirements/

    #43076

    Unseen
    Participant

    @Enco

    One can always find particular situations to justify a need for more guns, just as with anecdotes about people who defended themselves with guns. However, statistics tell the real story.

    However, when countries have reduced the number of guns, in general the gun deaths go down along with it.

    Can you, in all honesty, point to anywhere, reasonably similar to the U.S. where eliminating guns made gun deaths go up?

    The way I look at it is that there is a relationship between the number of guns out there and the number of gun deaths. To take an analogy, if we eliminated 2/3 of private autos in the country, would auto deaths go up? I think you can see the nonsense in that.

    Consider that many gun deaths are accidental or are suicides (53%, actually) or happen in impulsive moments of anger when a gun is handy.

    Your basic premise is just nonsensical.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Unseen.
    #43078

    Unseen
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers, Oh, and the school’s back door was open and ready for anybody with evil intent to come inside: Unlocked Door in Uvalde School Shooting Raises Questions About Texas Safety Requirements https://www.kxan.com/investigations/unlocked-door-in-uvalde-school-shooting-raises-questions-about-texas-safety-requirements/

    Doors are going to be unlocked sometimes, and if someone knocks on a door, someone is going to  open the door to see what’s up. Also, can’t someone shoot their way into a school by for example shooting the glass out of the door or a window?

    The idea that a locked door would have kept him from getting in doesn’t sound stupid to you?

    #43079

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Robert and Jake,

    According to Civil Rights Attorney and Pro-Second Amendment Advocate Don B. Kates, Jr., the legislative history of the Fourteenth Amendment says something very different.

    According to this legislative history, the Reconstructionist supporters of the Fourteenth Amendment supported it to extend the entire Bill of Rights to the newly freed slaves and to limit the power of the States to violate them. And among those rights was the Second Amendment, which they understood as an Individual Right to keep and bear arms.

    The Reconstructionists supported this Individual Right because they were informed by the past history of slavery–where slaves and freedmen both were forbidden to keep and bear arms. Reconstructionists were also informed by the Postbellum plight of freed slaves victimized by attacks of the Ku Klux Klan and other White Supremacists.

    After the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment and during the Reconstruxtion Era, freedmen of all “races” enjoyed this Individual Right until Federal withdrawal from the former Slave States, judicial “benign neglect” began, and Jim Crow was imposed, including racist gun control laws.

    You can read all about this fascinating history in Don B. Kates’ book: Gun Control: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out.

    As the bumper sticker put it inspired by Blackstone’s Commentaries: “Free Men Own Guns. Slaves Don’t.”

    #43080

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco, you must be aghast at emancipation in that it is a restraint on trade and unbridled capitalism. Trick laws to ameliorate the oppression of Blacks is a nightmare caused by liberals. Similarly every citizen should have guns, big guns, extra lethal muthas…

    #43083

    Actually, if you take the proposals by Cruz, Patrick and others literally, they amount to a call for turning the land of the free into a giant armed camp.

    #43085

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Several points:

    There is “colorism” among Hispanics, as with other people. The elites in Mexico are lighter in color and emphasize their ties to Spain and put down the peasantry for their closeness to Indigenous peoples. Yet another reason not to regard Mexico as a refuge for problems in the U.S.

    Here are two sources for the facts on firearms in the U.S.:

    In hard copy, there is the work from the Freethought publisher Prometheus Books: The Gun Control Debate: You Decide. Also available on Archive.org:

    https://archive.org/details/guncontroldebate00leen

    And there is American Gun Facts:A Factual Look at Guns in America

    Home

    The arguments made in both sources are the same in many ways, though the latter is most up-to-date on statistics.

    There are 397 million handguns, rifles, and shotguns in private hands in the U.S. And when you count Military things like automatic rifles, machine guns, grenades, grenade launchers, and mortars, the numher of pieces of small arms goes up to over a billion, with over a trillions rounds of ammunition.

    You’d think with the presence of all of these that violence with firearms would be much higher than it is. Yet out of all of these weapons, only something like 2 hundredths of One Percent (.02 %) of all of these weapons are used in the commission of a crime.

    Also, although all such incidents are tragic, it is a category mistake for gun control supporters to lump suicides in with homicides and to treat all homicides as equal in the statistics they use.

    If you hold to the premise that slavery is wrong and that adults own themselves by right, then isn’t the ultimate test of ownership whether individuals have a right to dispose of their own lives? Why is this considered a crime among people who profess to be free? And it’s not like you can prosecute a suicide that is completed or even stop a suicide by banning firearms.

    If you remove suicides from the figures, the number of firearms deaths to be concerned about is much lower. And when you separate justifiable homicides done in self-defense and the unjustifiable homicide of murder, the numher to really be concerned about is even lower still.

    And as for use of firearms in self-defense, they are more than anecdotal.
    (And what are statistics but compiled, organized, collated, and shared anecdotes?)

    There are anywhere between 500,000 and 2.8 million incidents every year where firearms are used to defend Life, Liberty, and Property from criminal attack. Many times, the weapon is only presented, (though if you have a weapon, of course, you must be willing to use it.)

    And when you consider that not all incidents of criminal attack are reported to authorities, the number of uses of firearms for self-defense is probably even larger than listed.

    As for “impulse killings” or “crimes of passion,” if you scratch deep enough, you’ll find the people who do those have long histories of violent outbursts, alcohol and drug problems, and general dysfunctional fucked-upedness. No ban on guns, or for that matter no ban on alcohol or drugs, can address that.

    As for accidental deaths, these are addressed the same way we deal with accidental use of autos and appliances and accidental pregnancies: by education, even as simple as a product manual or courses on a gun range. Because of the ubiquity of information available through our endless variety of media as well as safety courses on firearms, accidents with firearms have gone down considerably over the years.

    The way I look at it is that there is a relationship between the number of guns out there and the number of gun deaths. To take an analogy, if we eliminated 2/3 of private autos in the country, would auto deaths go up? I think you can see the nonsense in that.

    There might be fewer auto deaths, but many millions more deaths from lack of access to paying work, lack of access to food and potable water, lack of access to health care, lack of access to areas with lower crime, lack of choice in general, lack of all benefits brought by modern transportation. Thomas Sowell wins again: Life is trade-offs.

    (We also see a microcosm of this in our present supply chain problems caused by inflating the money supply to pay people just to exist, policies stopping our energy independence and raising fuel prices, import restrictions on vital necessities, the FDA restricting fucking baby formula (???), etc. ad nauseum.)

    Finally you ask:

    Can you, in all honesty, point to anywhere, reasonably similar to the U.S. where eliminating guns made gun deaths go up?

    I think that Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership could tell you a whole lot about a nation that was considered the most civilized in Europe, a “land of poets and philosophers” that restricted guns to Police and Military, yet went horribly wrong. They can also tell you about many other places where banning firearms was one of the preludes to mass enslavement and murder.

    Jews for Preservation of Firearms Ownership
    http://www.jpfo.org

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling and closing a code tag
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Punctuation
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Fixing the code tag again
    #43090

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    I made the dumb mistake of being an NRA member for one year. What I found was is that they had honorable beginnings in 1878 instructing the general public and freed slaves in particular, about firearms use, care, safety, and marksmanship and defending the Second Amendment.

    But like so many other groups, they morphed into a self-perpetuating juggernaut that is more interested in raising funds and selling magazines and embossed bumper stickers, decals, T-Shirts, tchotchkes, gee-jaws, and gimcracks than in actually defending the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

    In their entire existence, I don’t think the NRA ever repealed one of the U.S.’s 20,000+ gun laws on all levels of Government. (Yes, it is that many from Cities, Counties, States, and the Federal Governments.)

    Fortunately, there are other groups that are much more focused on firearms for all the right reasons:

    I don’t participate in Reddit or Facebook, but there is a group of Atheist gun owners on each, showing that gun owners are as different as every other group:

    Atheist Gun Owners from atheism

    https://m.facebook.com/Atheists-with-Guns-243614255765805/

    Pink Pistols (Supports spreading the ideas of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms –RKBA for short–and firearms proficiency and safety to LGBTQ+ individuals and Straight friends alike. There is also no in-fighting about “gatekeeping” or secon-class “ally” status or other SJW/Woke jibberish.)
    https://www.pinkpistols.org/

    Women and Guns (Long-standing publication dedicated to Advocacy and Litigation for women’s Right to Keep and Bear Arms and with news, op-eds, and product reviews as well. “Sisters Are Doing It For Themselves” as the song says.)

    Home

    Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (This group is open to both Jews and “Righteous Gentiles” alike who support the Constitution and The Bill of Rights and is informed and inspired in its firearms activism by the history of the Jews and by the other democides of the Twentieth Century.)
    http://jpfo.org/

    Second Amendment Foundation (An alternative to the NRA engaged in litigation. It doesn’t appear to have a lot of the ties that the NRA has to more questionable activists.)

    Home

    Internation Association for Protection of Civilian Arms Rights (Has many links to RKBA organizations in foreign countries, mostly Europe, but also Asia, Oceania, and Africa.)

    Organizations

    Citizen’s Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (Another alternative RKBA organization with activism in litigation as well as boycotts of anti-gun companies–how well the boycotting works, I don’t know– bur also helpful legal guides. and other information.)
    http://www.ccrkba.org/

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling and acronym
    #43092

    Some years back  “The Onion” ran a headline about  “Grave robbers pry valuable rifle from Charlton Heston’s cold, dead hands“. They have some more interesting articles today which are informative.

    #43093

    Unseen
    Participant

    @ Enco

    I’m not totally uninformed. I know about skin color tensions within racisl groups, but as far as I know, it’s never been a motive behind a mass murder, and certainly not among Hispanics, despite the wide range of skin color between, say, the Spanish speakers of the Caribbean and native Spaniards, with plenty of shades in between. There are a number of Spanish-speaking countries.

    Beyond all your jibber-jabber about gun stats, where is your response to the notion that taking guns out of a society has worked to reduce and nearly eliminate mass shootings elsewhere?

    An argument that Americans can’t or won’t go along with such a policy is one you could make and that we could argue about, but you simply have nothing to say about it?

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Unseen.
    #43095

    Unseen
    Participant

    One politician (first name rhymes with “red” and last name rhymes with “cruise”) suggested that schools should have only one way in or out. One door.

    I don’t think he consulted with the International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) before making that remark.

    Come to think of it, wouldn’t it be better if every room had a second door, preferably leading outside?

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Unseen.
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