AMERICA IS LOST.

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  • #43136

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Robert,

    You sure do love the stereotypes, don’t you?

    I’m pro-vax and pro-RKBA, both for the same reasons of protecting Life, Liberty, and Property from attack, whether from protein shells of bad DNA or two-legged predators on the street or in hallowed halls of power.

    And according to AmericanGunFacts.com and Attorney Don B. Kates, Jr, firearms owners are from all “races”, nationalities, genders, and political and religious creeds and non-creeds.

    And contrary to many preconceptions, the New England States Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine have the most lenient gun laws, not the West or the South, yet New England States also have the least amount of crime. While some will piffle this low crime with various sociological reasons, that just further demonstrates the crime is a result of far more than just guns and defies reductionism.

    (I was shocked and amazed to learn that for decades, Vermont has had a policy where you could purchase and carry any gun, openly or concealed, without a license! New Hampshire’s gun laws were similar and recently caught up to Vermont. Pretty amazing stuff from the land of Bernie “no one needs 23 kinds of deodorant” Sanders!)

    Kates also oberves that the people most likely to own guns are the middle-class, the demographic most likely to give to charity, most likely to support minority rights, most likely to be horrified of violence, and the demographic with the most to lose from either crime or tyranny.

    #43137

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    In the U.S., there is no “official” firearms training per se, but there are lots of evidenced-based and experience-based firearms curricula from many sources and avalable in media and hands-on through shooting ranges.

    One teacher who is greatly trusted and respected is Officer Massad Ayoob, who has written many works on the subject and offered expert testimony in court cases:

    Massad Ayoob–Wikipedia
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob

    Another great source to consider if you’re medically approved as physically fit would be U.S. Marine Cotps Sniper Training. Their weapons may be proprietary, but the training is not and is available to civilians. Their motto is: “One Shot, One Kill.”

    I am all in favor of firearms training as a matter of common sense and gun stores strongly encourage it and even offer courses with their sales. However, saying “There Oughtta Be A Law” would probably make firearms instruction as bad as any other form of compulsory schooling and for all the same reasons.

    #43138

    jakelafort
    Participant

    God and guns made America great. God lovers are gun lovers and gun lovers are god lovers. God lovers love absolutes. The absolutist’s hermeneutics of the bible and the constitution demand that we know what was intended by the framers. Never mind that modern conditions were never contemplated and the language, necessary for a well regulated militia, a complete anachronism. According to the robots and to the extent possible that interpretation should be literal except where such an interpretation is in conflict with self-interest.

    How radical is it to derive policy and constitutional rights empirically? Is such a departure from the path of God and Gun lovers justifiable? BTW Gun Runner is one hell of an American sire. His record with first time starters and champions is remarkable. Also consistent with stream of consciousness one of the phrases oft used by announcers of yesteryear was “going great guns” which i think was a phrase from the 2nd world war. I say that to say something which is sometimes not as good as saying nuthing. So praise the lord and pass the ammunition and we’ll all be free…

    #43139

    Gun massacres have become such a banal occurrence.  There have already been 11 more since the massacre in Uvalde and maybe more if there were any today. Source.

    #43140

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    Soooo…Have we gone through a wormhole to an alternate Universe, or does The Bar take “special needs” admissions…or both?

    Your Socialist bretheren in The Great White North of Quebec with their precious single-payer health care, in a supposedly “civilized” nation, still practice slavery, in the form of forced speech and forced language education as a requirement to practice medicine or other peaceful, honest, voluntary enterprise:

    FIRST READING: Quebec to Pass Unbelievably Onerous Language Law
    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/first-reading-quebec-to-pass-unbelievably-onerous-language-law

    And none of this is for “Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity,” or even “Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité,” but plain ol’ snooty, snotty, snobby French Language Chauvinism we’ve all come to know and love from thisxbunch.

    What next? Will the Quebec Government require Doctors and Medical Professionals to speak in tongues, to speak spells, incantations, exorcisms, and prayers as part of their bedside manner? These are popular in Mother France after all. And will the Quebec Government require use of honorific titles for Primier François Legault and the bureaucrats who enforce this?

    #43141

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Oh, hey Enco.

    I am Jake, friend of the lady of the lake. Also enemy of the talking snake.

    No special needs here. I aced the bar and was hoping to have enough time to make the races during lunch hour but that part went the way of the best laid plans.

    Unlike you i am not an ideologue so you can’t rightly classify me as purely anything other than homo sapien and jackass. As for Quebec it was colonized by Catholics so there is no surprise in that news. No more news. No more notes. Never more air quotes.

    #43143

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg and Fellow Unbelievers,

    I did some research on this subject and here is what I have found:

    Here is some of the banal occurances of crime that are evidently accepted as normal throughout the nations of Europe that have serverely restricted access to firearms:

    WHO/Europe–Violence
    https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/violence-and-injuries/areas-of-work/violence

    Violence In Europe Much Higher Than Official Records
    https://fra.europa.eu/en/news/2021/violence-and-harassment-across-europe-much-higher-official-records

    Organized Crime In Europe; A Country-By-Country Breakdown

    Organized crime in Europe: A country-by-country breakdown

    25 Most Dangerous Cities In Europe

    25 Most Dangerous Cities in Europe

    And it turns out that it’s not so easy to tell whether there is a correlation between restrictiins on firearms access and lower crime, due to differing national gun laws, differing gun cultures, and differing statistical methodologies:

    Firearms and violence in Europe–A systematic review
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8046231/

    Do more privately owned firearms lead to more firearm violence?
    https://phys.org/news/2021-04-privately-firearms-firearm-violence.html

    First comprehensive study on gun violence in Europe identifies alarming trends
    https://phys.org/news/2021-12-comprehensive-gun-violence-europe-alarming.html

    #43144

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    God did nothing in the face of the atrocity in Uvalde, Texas, just as God does nothing in the face of any crime because God does not exist. And the agents humans appointed to stop crime did nothing in Uvalde, Texas either.

    So with these two insufferable options, I go fully with private citizens having the right to keep and bear arms and the right to keep their children away from government conformity factories and human slaughterhouses. You don’t have to love or believe a God to support those rights.

    And those rights do not change with technology, No more than the right to freedom of thought and expression changed when humans moved from soapboxes and printing presses to desktop computers and smartphones.

    And every other right enumerated in The Bill Of Rights, The Reconstruction Amendements, The Nineteenth Aendemnt, and the Twenty-Sixth Amendment applies to Individuals, so why should the Second Amendment be an exception?

    So don’t praise the Lord. Save a step and just pass the ammunition and, combined with defending all other Individual Rights, we will all be free.

    #43145

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Ok Enco, this will be a hasty response as i only found one play at Belterra and am on to Thistledowns.

    As to the cops at that scene, what an ignominious failure. On the other hand that is not to condemn all cops. I would look at a whole host of evidence and weed out tendentious data gatherers if possible. But my gut is there ought to be a right to bear arms that is highly regulated with shit like background checks at a minimum and high risk individuals like the poor kids who have been bullied, isolated and alienated are an obvious risk demographic and would not give such individuals arms. Further the social media of such individuals ought to be monitored.

    You want to elevate timeless principles and the hell with consequences. For my money that is being mindless. There is a sliding scale as weaponry available to the individual escalates in lethality. Individual rights such as constitutional rights are always balanced against competing interests. If an individual weapon being shot once can take out a city then the state has to be more circumspect than ever. It is the same with speech. But i wont elaborate because you are immune to reason on this topic.

    Back to the ponies..

    #43146

    Unseen
    Participant
    #43147

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    As to the cops at that scene, what an ignominious failure.

    Yeah, “what an ignominious failure.” And taking all the guns away would leave every Citizen at the mercy of such “tgnominious failures!”

    On the other hand that is not to condemn all cops.

    No one has. However, as the saying goes, “When seconds count, police are minutes away.” Police in a free society cannot be everywhere and even Totalitarian societies haven’t achieved their dream of a police officer for every Citizen. Also, Warren v. District of Columbia has ruled that police officers are only obligated to enforce the general laws as they see them violated, not to protect individual Citizens.

    As long as police cannot be everywhere and cannot or will not protect individual Citizens, then a Citizen needs to own the means of protecting his or her self.

    ;I would look at a whole host of evidence and weed out tendentious data gatherers if possible. But my gut is there ought to be a right to bear arms that is highly regulated with shit like background checks at a minimum and high risk individuals like the poor kids who have been bullied, isolated and alienated are an obvious risk demographic and would not give such individuals arms. Further the social media of such individuals ought to be monitored.

    One, there are already background checks for hndguns nationwide and for cojcealed carry in half of the States. And if you have to say: “Big Brother May I?” it’t not a right, but a privilege and a favor. So your Strawman is tackled and beat stuffingless.

    Two. So your response to “poor kids who have been bullied, isolated, and alienated” is to disarm them and subject them to Police-State surveillance and thus assure that they will be subject to more “bullying, isolation, and alienation?”

    Goddeamn, i wish you could hear how cruel and stupid that sounds!

    You want to elevate timeless principles and the hell with consequences. For my money that is being mindless.

    As opposed to having no principles and treating human beings as rightless slaves if your whims so demand? Talk about mindless.

    There is a sliding scale as weaponry available to the individual escalates in lethality. Individual rights such as constitutional rights are always balanced against competing interests. If an individual weapon being shot once can take out a city then the state has to be more circumspect than ever. It is the same with speech.

    No one is talking about “weapons that can take down a city!” So your Strawman is infected, gassed, nuked, and incinerated like The Burning Man in Black Rock City, Nevada.

    But i wont elaborate because you are immune to reason on this topic.

    Back to the ponies..

    Given how you regard sapient human beings, your treatment of merely sentient dumb animals has to be even worse. I couldn’t watch.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Correecting tags
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Tag correction, spelling, and addendum
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling. I need a bigger pad
    #43151

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unsen,

    Have you read a single finding I”ve posted, or do you still think it’s “jiber-jabber?”

    No only do the statistics show that there is no demonstrable link between gun res5rictions and lack of gun violence, buy there’s plenty of evidence that gun restrictions don’t stop em>all violence or any violence.

    Europe and Australia both are filled with domestic violence, soccer and cricket riots and hooliganism, Mafia extortion, robbery, and hits, knife violence, Islamic terrorists slaughtering people on the street with machetes and throwing bettery acid in the faces of unveiled women, Islamic invaders torching cars and police boxes and running rqpe gangs in the streets of Paris, France; Berlin,,Germany; Copenhagen, Denmark; and Malmo, Sweden, and it goes on and on.

    CNN either doen’t know what it’s ralking about or it is a shill for the anti-gun movement.

    #43154

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Encospeak: And taking all the guns away would leave every Citizen at the mercy of such “tgnominious failures!”

    Didn’t do the Texans any good carrying guns. Ya see if you had just been consistent in your libertarian fairy tale and every citizen were responsible for their own safety then the parents could have used their guns to take out the bad guy.

    Encospeak: One, there are already background checks for hndguns nationwide and for cojcealed carry in half of the States. And if you have to say: “Big Brother May I?” it’t not a right, but a privilege and a favor. So your Strawman is tackled and beat stuffingless.

    You are beating the hell out of an empty pinata. I indicated my “gut.” I never made any claims about the state of the law. Also indicated that before i made any decisions i would examine a great deal of evidence and discount tendentious evidence.

    Encospeak: Two. So your response to “poor kids who have been bullied, isolated, and alienated” is to disarm them and subject them to Police-State surveillance and thus assure that they will be subject to more “bullying, isolation, and alienation?”

    Goddeamn, i wish you could hear how cruel and stupid that sounds!

    You have a partial point. The welfare of the bullied kids is quite relevant. Giving kids who have a vendetta against their tormentors is hardly the answer unless you wish to create more violence and death. That is obvious. No? And it is even worse than it appears cuz when the victims of bullying seek vengeance it seems to play out against everybody, not simply the ones who have it coming.

    Encospeak: As opposed to having no principles and treating human beings as rightless slaves if your whims so demand? Talk about mindless.

    Life is not as simple as the religious like yourself make it out to be. It is not all black and white and colored by absolutes. One ought to ponder issues instead of deciding them in advance and being intractable. Conditions that were extant when laws were drafted change and so do the mores of a civilization. A more basic form of principles may guide our ethical and legal considerations rather than having Enco-cement.

    Encospeak: No one is talking about “weapons that can take down a city!” So your Strawman is infected, gassed, nuked, and incinerated like The Burning Man in Black Rock City, Nevada.

    You missed the pinata entirely this time. But keep flailing away! Weapons have indeed become more lethal. The automatic weapons are way more deadly than the blunderbuss and they’re being used by citizens. That tendency to increase lethality will continue. If we proceed like religionists and pretend their is a fundamental right to bear arms, any arms under any conditions then the deaths will escalate. Again, being reasonable in our analysis requires us to consider competing interests. Having timeless, mindless won’t permit us to rewind us. Rhyme time! Aint that sublime?

    Encospeak: Given how you regard sapient human beings, your treatment of merely sentient dumb animals has to be even worse. I couldn’t watch.

    I give and have given nonhuman animals far more credit for their intelligence and understanding than is customary.

    #43158

    Unseen
    Participant

    Have you read a single finding I”ve posted, or do you still think it’s “jiber-jabber?” No only do the statistics show that there is no demonstrable link between gun res5rictions and lack of gun violence, buy there’s plenty of evidence that gun restrictions don’t stop em>all violence or any violence.

    Did you even look at the chart?

    #43161

    Unseen
    Participant

    CNN either doen’t know what it’s ralking about or it is a shill for the anti-gun movement.

    You make it sound like an “anti-gun movement” is a bad thing. Explain why we should all be pro-gun, please.

    Also, do you have the site’s built-in spell checker switched off, or are you just very bad and spelling or don’t believe in proofing what you write before you click the Submit button?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  Unseen.
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