AMERICA IS LOST.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Ted’s bogus One Door policy, apart from being a pathetic distraction from any real form of problem solving, would have proven very disastrous in the Columbine High School attack in 1999. As bad as that day was just imagine one shooter going into the school while the second stood outside the only escape route.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

Enco, you must be aghast at emancipation in that it is a restraint on trade and unbridled capitalism. Trick laws to ameliorate the oppression of Blacks is a nightmare caused by liberals. Similarly every citizen should have guns, big guns, extra lethal muthas…

Free-Mqrket Capitalists don’t kidnap or conscript their labor; they recruit and hire, and unlike Attorneys with too many of their interns, Free-Market Capitalists pay dearly depending on the demand and scarcity of the specialty. But you know this.

And Equal Rights And Justice Before The Law is no trick but a treat for all individuals, unlike legislation for “protected classes.” But, again, you know this.

As for the size of firearms, they do not have to be big to be deadly.

Samuel Colt called his beautiful creation “The Great Equalizer,” because it makes the stereotypical 99-pound-when-soaking-wet-little-old-lady-in-tennis-shoes the better of any 300+ pound thug man as big and wide as a doorway.

Oh, and Pop-Up Video Factoid for Us Atheists: Madalyn Murray O’Hair only lived as long as she did in the face of non-stop death threats precisely because she and her family members packed heat. Her mortal downfall was an HR decision to embrace “Inclusion” of a criminal scumbag into her organization.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Beyond all your jibber-jabber about gun stats, where is your response to the notion that taking guns out of a society has worked to reduce and nearly eliminate mass shootings elsewhere?

Look, you called self-defensive use of guns “anecdotal” and I rightly pointed out statistics that it isn’t and wasn’t.

You said that mere presence of guns leads to more gun violence, and I rightly pointed out statistics on gun presence versus crimes to point out that it doesn’t.

And I refered to an example of a civilized nation that forbade guns to everyone but Police and Military that spread it’s ways to other nations and ultimately ended up using guns, bayonnets, gas, and every other weapon imaginable to ultimately wipe out 11 million disarmed human beings (6 million Jews, plus 5 million Slavs, Romani, Poles, Homosexuals, Disabled, Mentally Infirm, “Asocial” types, Political Opponents, Business Leaders, Labor Leaders, and basically anyone not “them.”

And your response is to call it all “jibber-jabber.” 🙄

An argument that Americans can’t or won’t go along with such a policy is one you could make and that we could argue about, but you simply have nothing to say about it?

How good or evil a course of action is doesn’t depend on who “goes along with it.”

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Doors are going to be unlocked sometimes, and if someone knocks on a door, someone is going to open the door to see what’s up.

No one with sense opens if there’s a peep hole and a hidden surveillance camera acting as redundancies and back-ups.

Also, can’t someone shoot their way into a school by for example shooting the glass out of the door or a window?

They would telegraph their presence if they did so, which does not work to their advantage, and even then, this assumes glass in the door, something a security door shouldn’t have without Kevlar reinforcement.

The idea that a locked door would have kept him from getting in doesn’t sound stupid to you?

It would have delayed him until teachers, principals, and security personnel could act to keep children safe…assuming there are any security personnel (which in this case, there weren’t.) This is why civilized dwellings have doors and walls and ceilings.

Let me tell you something: When the word “carjacking” entered our culture’s lexicon, I began locking my vehicle before and after every time I entered and exited the vehicle and kept it locked the entire distance I travelled. It would delay whoever attempted to open the door until I could speed off.

If the sight of me locking my vehicle offended someone, or if the door handle caught their hand, clothing or hair as they attempted to open the door, tough shit. They could have got a free Nantuckett Sleigh Ride if they attempted to seize my vehicle.

Locking my vehicle not only saved me and my vehicle from carjacking, but also it saves anyone who’d be a victim of my vehicle being used in a crime. Win-Win from The Visible Hand.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling and addendum
• This reply was modified 1 year ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: More spelling

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers,

With Homeschooling and Unschooling, you can have as many windows and doors in your “school” as your home has already, combined with locks, peepholes, video cameras, home security systems, smoke and CO detectors, fire extinguishers, and armed, informed parents or guardians.

And when the whole world is your school, there are always big trees, big rocks, ditches, caves, and walls to hide hehind or inside in the event of danger. Mass murderers can’t carry out their horrors if there is no “mass” to murder. What if there were a mass murder and nobody came?

All the more reason to pass “The Don’t Say Or Do Compulsory aschooling Act.” a.k.a. The Abolish Government Conformity Factories Act.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling, spacing, and grammar. Proof this can be done all by yourself

[UnseenParticipant]

@Enco

Let’s cut to the chase: Make the case for guns sound so wonderful that the non-Americans here might want to go out and push for their country to include the right to own guns in their constitution and why they’re fools for not carrying guns themselves.

That should prove interesting. “You can have a gun culture just like the U.S. Why not? It’s fun and you always feel safe.”

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

@Enco Let’s cut to the chase: Make the case for guns sound so wonderful that the non-Americans here might want to go out and push for their country to include the right to own guns in their constitution and why they’re fools for not carrying guns themselves. That should prove interesting. “You can have a gun culture just like the U.S. Why not? It’s fun and you always feel safe.”

Ah, unseen it’s all part of the slow death of a semi-democratic nation that IS lost. First John Wayne, then Rambo, now Kyle Rittenhouse. Gonna stick it to the man; “I ain’t wearing no mask or takin no govt vaccine”.

It’s always been less than one vote per person but look how well we are represented now. We have white, xtian minority control and they are working the brain-dead “freedumb” patriots to a tee, fondling the flag while carrying a bible and clutching an AR-15 and making big money. They hate democracy when they ain’t getting it their way.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

What the headline from The Onion misses is that in order to get the gun out of Charlton Heston’s “cold, dead fingers,” the grave robbers might have to first remove the gun from the “warm, very live” fingers of the cemetary owner. Never bring a shovel to a gunfight. 😁

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Closed the tag

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Neither myself nor most people who defend the Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms say that everyone must go out and get arms. We don’t tend to be of the Totalitarian “What’s not prohibited is mandatory” school of thought.

However, JPFO does provide a list of the Democides of the Twentieth Century, which regimes were involved, and what gun control and gun confiscation laws were involved in creating disarmed victims of Government slaughter and they cite Rudolph J. Rummel and other scholars of this subject:

“Death by Gun Control”
http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spacing, such as arms create between victimizers and their would-be victims

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

And I refered to an example of a civilized nation that forbade guns to everyone but Police and Military that spread it’s ways to other nations and ultimately ended up using guns, bayonnets, gas, and every other weapon imaginable to ultimately wipe out 11 million disarmed human beings (6 million Jews, plus 5 million Slavs, Romani, Poles, Homosexuals, Disabled, Mentally Infirm, “Asocial” types, Political Opponents, Business Leaders, Labor Leaders, and basically anyone not “them.”

You really think a Nazi-like rounding up of minorities and political or business leaders is on the horizon except for the 2nd Amendment, which is facilitating an annual 45,000+ gun deaths (2020 figure)? Don’t you think it’s far more likely that a hostile government will enact laws burdening them with or maintaining traditional disadvantages afflicting them?

Guns have become the leading cause of death for American kids

27 school shootings have taken place so far this year

 

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by  Unseen.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I have had some training experience with firearms. While I don’t own any, I think anyone who legally want “to bear arms” should have official training first, just like when driving a car. Most untrained people will be unprepared for a life and death situation and are very likely to miss their target even when it is close to them. I bet it will be discovered that this woman has had official training. Good for her.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Hi Enco. How is dreamland? The libertarian fantasy land makes no evidentiary demand-not for Enco who is deep in dreamland.

Says you mistah: Free-Mqrket Capitalists don’t kidnap or conscript their labor; they recruit and hire, and unlike Attorneys with too many of their interns, Free-Market Capitalists pay dearly depending on the demand and scarcity of the specialty. But you know this.

So historical precedent means nothing? Human nature is transformed to honest dealing when government keeps its paws off the mechanisms of business? Ricardo’s Law of Wages was just an idea that bore no relation to reality? From Wiki: The iron law of wages is a proposed law of economics that asserts that real wages always tend, in the long run, toward the minimum wage necessary to sustain the life of the worker. The early unions weren’t really necessary because big business was paying its workers fairly and protecting their safety. And the Pinkertons killed workers who wanted more in that spirit?

Before emancipation businesses like plantations never utilized slaves cuz that would be unfair and against their policies of fair dealing? After emancipation big business did not purchase tens of thousands of slaves and treat those slaves as fungible goods whose lives were generally worse than slaves of antebellum south? Companies like Standard Oil wouldn’t do such a thing, ha? See Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II is a book by American writer Douglas A. Blackmon, published by Anchor Books in 2008.[2] It explores the forced labor of prisoners, overwhelmingly African American men, through the convict lease system used by states, local governments, white farmers, and corporations after the American Civil War until World War II in the southern United States. Blackmon argues that slavery in the United States did not end with the Civil War, but instead persisted well into the 20th century. It depicts the subjugation of convict leasing, sharecropping and peonage and tells the fate of the former but not of the latter two.

[_Robert_Participant]

jakelafort wrote:

Hi Enco. How is dreamland? The libertarian fantasy land makes no evidentiary demand-not for Enco who is deep in dreamland. Says you mistah: Free-Mqrket Capitalists don’t kidnap or conscript their labor; they recruit and hire, and unlike Attorneys with too many of their interns, Free-Market Capitalists pay dearly depending on the demand and scarcity of the specialty. But you know this. So historical precedent means nothing? Human nature is transformed to honest dealing when government keeps its paws off the mechanisms of business? Ricardo’s Law of Wages was just an idea that bore no relation to reality? From Wiki: The iron law of wages is a proposed law of economics that asserts that real wages always tend, in the long run, toward the minimum wage necessary to sustain the life of the worker. The early unions weren’t really necessary because big business was paying its workers fairly and protecting their safety. And the Pinkertons killed workers who wanted more in that spirit? Before emancipation businesses like plantations never utilized slaves cuz that would be unfair and against their policies of fair dealing? After emancipation big business did not purchase tens of thousands of slaves and treat those slaves as fungible goods whose lives were generally worse than slaves of antebellum south? Companies like Standard Oil wouldn’t do such a thing, ha? See Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II is a book by American writer Douglas A. Blackmon, published by Anchor Books in 2008.[2] It explores the forced labor of prisoners, overwhelmingly African American men, through the convict lease system used by states, local governments, white farmers, and corporations after the American Civil War until World War II in the southern United States. Blackmon argues that slavery in the United States did not end with the Civil War, but instead persisted well into the 20th century. It depicts the subjugation of convict leasing, sharecropping and peonage and tells the fate of the former but not of the latter two.

In a way you could call the entire effort to preserve slavery a Southern libertarian movement; if you consider slavery was the default position of the day. How dare you Northern folks in DC try to tell us what we can or cannot do with our “property”. That was basically the rant of ass hats like JC Calhoun a decade before the war.

The subject is beyond the jurisdiction of Congress – they have no right to touch it in any shape or form, or to make it the subject of deliberation or discussion…

As widely as this incendiary spirit has spread, it has not yet infected this body, or the great mass of the intelligent and business portion of the North; but unless it be speedily stopped, it will spread and work upwards till it brings the two great sections of the Union into deadly conflict.

Of course, modern day libertarians would reject that idea and spit out some BS about the rights of slaves which of course had to be gained through a terrible war won by a federal government.  If TRump gets elected again, this time all the fucking white robes and hoods will come out of the closets.

[DavisModerator]

I really must point out that in safe western countries (basically every western country but the US), guns are not necesarily prohibited. Canada, Finland, Iceland and Switzerland are good examples where hunting rifles are abound and in a few of them, ex military personnel can (or must) hold onto their handguns. Also, in some (though not all) Western European countries if one follows all the gun regulations, they can get a handgun. Having said that, it is fairly hard to get non-hunting weapons in some countires (Spain/UK) and even then having hunting weapons is not taken lightly.

Please remember the distinction between banning guns and gun control. The difference is HUGE. I don’t know many Europeans/Canadians/Australians who are for prohibiting any citizen from owning any weapon ever. There is simply a (highly rational) consensus that to have a hunting weapon you should:

• know what your are doing (training and/or target practice [and preferably some instruction])
• understand gun safety (preferably including gun safes/well locked gun racks)
• understand maintenance
• submit to gun inspections
• renew your license (with criminal checks)

In addition to the above, if we are talking about a handgun, all the above is mandatory and not optional with the addition of:

• have a good reason to have a handgun
• have much heavier/stricter training/practice, licensing, gun safety, instruction, maintenance, inspections

I don’t know any Western country where more than a small minority support any non-uniformed person being able to own an automatic weapon.

None of this should be controversial. Gun control is eminently sensible and something is wrong when people are for much stricter regulation in nearly far less dangerous spheres of life but not with weapons of instant murder from a distance.

[jakelafortParticipant]

From Robert:

In a way you could call the entire effort to preserve slavery a Southern libertarian movement; if you consider slavery was the default position of the day. How dare you Northern folks in DC try to tell us what we can or cannot do with our “property”. That was basically the rant of ass hats like JC Calhoun a decade before the war.

Slaves were property as per Dred Scott decision and the Fugitive Slave Act. Without checks on any institution or person possessing great power there comes abuse of power. It is so fundamental to humans that it is an axiom. The same applies to labor. Workers of the world have been hosed by business except where they have come together to fight the power. It is no secret that megacompanies go abroad to exploit cheap labor and why wouldn’t they? It is not like companies tend to give a lemur’s ass about non-shareholders. Furthering their interest means fuck the environment and fuck the people who are exploited unless and until doing the right thing as to the environment and people is a net gain.

Robert again:

Of course, modern day libertarians would reject that idea and spit out some BS about the rights of slaves which of course had to be gained through a terrible war won by a federal government. If TRump gets elected again, this time all the fucking white robes and hoods will come out of the closets.

Agreed. Libertarianism is in a way akin to religion. If given it’s head or unchallenged its exercise of freedom is the servitude, subjugation and diminution of many. So it is BS and it is hypocrisy to trumpet the rights of all people.

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