Do you think Orange Hitler will be impeached?

Homepage Forums Politics Do you think Orange Hitler will be impeached?

This topic contains 21 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Glen D 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #26386

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I have heard that the debt crisis in Europe and the US is like a ticking time bomb, and the worst crisis on the horizon.

    #26387

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    The only president that got impeached in my lifetime was Clinton. I thought he was great, LOL. Trump is not the problem. He is a symptom. All the anti-Trump rhetoric is off target. He did not elect himself no matter how bad the voting system may be.

    And didn’t Clinton’s popularity go way up after the impeachment?

    (I may overuse the word “demonize”, below. Its also about how humans tribalize, so maybe that’s actually the bigger picture, e.g. demonizing is a symptom of an unfortunately selected-for evolutionary trait of tribalizing.)

    I agree with you, and I see the counter-productiveness of demonizing Trump and gang. I try, but maybe sometimes fail, to not demonize someone, but I regularly violate that rule when talking about those other people who do demonize others as a rule, like Trump. (He’s the original promulgator of the Birther Movement, waaay back.) And it’s Trump and Tribe that demonize others, not just Trump, and/but as you’ve said before, a lot of that is from lefties who have been demonizing righties. Now we’re in a vicious circle, like war.

    I also often feel intolerant of the intolerant. I call myself an atheist to identify with pushing back against the worst intolerance of religions. 911 energized me there, and so did our flag-waving Christian Nation self-righteous reaction to it in Iraq. That flag-waving ran so deep as a tribalizing meme, the one thing I’ll “never forget” (using a meme of that period of distress) is how un-patriotic people were accused of being if they objected to the war or our mismanagement of Iraq after breaking that country. (My brother in law was actually Minister of Transportation during those first years of mismanagement, and he told me America just “deserves the spoils of war”.)

    Now, I know it’s practically impossible to impose a completely different kind of government on a whole country like that, but our whole country kept itself ignorant of that fact, and refused to acknowledge that any mistake made by America was even possible. Again, if you criticized, “you just hate ‘Merica”.

    I wish now I had taken pictures of all the American flags flown on car antennas and in the back up pickup trucks… often two huge flags, sometimes one being a union jack flag. Maybe I was just overly sensitive to it, but seriously, I  heard sometimes daily how “some people just hate America” when they questioned its actions.

    So back to the current topic of impeachment… that is also just a symptom of the disease, the disease we need to treat somehow.

    #26388

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    I have heard that the debt crisis in Europe and the US is like a ticking time bomb, and the worst crisis on the horizon.

    Steve Bannon has been predicting this as a global crisis, and it has energized his apocalyptic view of how we should be hunkering down and preparing for global war. He’s responsible for a lot of the “internet science” of channelizing angst and tribalizing people with fake news, and how to hone “those evil lefty bastards in America are ruining us” commentary.

    (There I go again, demonizing a demonizer.)

    #26389

    Davis
    Participant

    Overwealming consensus amongst economists on the debt crisis is that it IS a crisis, not because it will implode (or explode). That is unlikely unless things get wildly out of control. Its a crisis for a totally different reason, in the same way that Climate disaster is a crisis. Because we are transferring the problem to our children and future generations. And the longer this goes on the more painful it will be for them. And since very few countries are changing their habits it will be one whopper of a problem for people yet to be born.

    Since we are also talking about Redneck ‘Merica on this thread: one of the reasons I never buy the deep south conservative justification for homophobia through the excuse of protecting “family values” or “community values” is because family values only means something when it comes to making laws and telling other people how not to live their lives. If family values were really honestly behind the making of new laws then they would not outright reject Global Warming without properly investigating it. As would be borrowing enormous sums of money that your kids will pay off. The same would even be the case with the eagerness to cut social programs for their fellow town citizens living on the streets in destitution. In these cases, family values and community values gets in the way of overheating your house, driving an unesesarily enormous car and super low delivery fees…and also a very slightly lower tax bill. In these cases actual sacrifices have to be made, sacrafices that would protect your families future but inconvenience you. On a case by case basis they are pretty small sacrifices actually…and it will provide a better forum for their children to thrive and prosper. Other things that family values justify such as homophobia costs the people being homophobic nothing. It’s not remotely about family values but justifying hate. No inconvenience for straight people there.  It is totally the same dubious bullshit with rising debt. Your children or their children will bear the full brunt of the debt crisis. Which will mean eventually one day making long term major sacrifices on government spending and quite possibly very high taxes for years. The people who quote family values are the most likely to vote for parties that sustain making life notably difficult for ones children and grandchildren. When that debt is borrowed just to cut some taxes…is when it reaches its most grotesque, selfish and toxic to your families future. When I think about meaningful family values I look to Norway. A country that has tons of oil but still has a high carbon tax. It has no debt because of extremely wise and sound financial planning. It has extremely generous social programs to take care of all wider communities demonstrating real community values. And it provides endless opportunities to reward responsibility, hard work, helping your children foster with very strict laws that make sure vulnerable children, abused spouses and neglected grandparents are seriously protected from abuse. They don’t transfer debt to their children and they are working to avoid making the planet a toxic dust bowl for their great-great-grandchildren. The debt crisis is not one of financial collapse (unless there is some major shift to how economics work) but of enjoying free money that is externalized to the next generation, people who are infants or who don’t even exist yet and thus seem irrelevant despite being your offspring. Or to put it another way the debt crisis wont be a sudden economic catastrophe but a LONG  painful drawn out hardship for them.

     

    #26391

    Here is a very good analysis of the problems that will lead to the next recession. It is from a site I often refer too. In my early twenties I used to work for an economic forecasting “think tank” in a University in London. If only the Internet existed then!

    #26395

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Yes, that is the problem with many Republicans. Very short term thinking. I remember a coworker who like me did not sire any kids. He went on and on complaining about having to pay taxes for schools for other people’s kids. In the meantime I was volunteering my technical services for science fairs and such as part of my company’s efforts to get youths interested in STEM. One day he agreed to help me with a fair and when he saw the enthusiasm of those kids, their eyes all lit up….he admitted he was wrong and that we should do everything to encourage excellence in education. That’s all it took!

    I have this gut feeling (that is impossible to prove) that more than half the right wingers are actually looking for affirmation and acceptance with all the hateful internet nonsense and in real life, face to face situations they are not nearly beyond compassion. I have witnessed personal examples of this. Political affiliation is a bell shaped curve. If the left just manages to pull the far left side of the curve in a bit, the median (entire curve) will shift to the left. That far left simply represents communism and a form slavery to so many conservatives. I am no fan of communism. I would rather kiss the Pope’s ring. There have been cases where communism was required for basic human survival in some regions and it may come to that again, however that is not how I want to live.

    #26865

    Glen D
    Participant

    Point of order:

    Under the parliamentary system of democracy, used in the UK , Australia an other commonwealth Countries, the Prime Minister is simply the head of the party which forms government.  He is neither the CIC nor head of government. Queen Elizabeth is the Australian Head Of State. Her representative is The Governor General,  chosen by the incumbent government. It is generally seen as a  purely ceremonial position, but still has the constitutional power to dismiss parliament. (last used in 1975)

    The voters do NOT vote for Prime Minister. In my life time, I  have never heard of  a PM anywhere being impeached. Don’t even know if it’s possible.

    The party can, and does remove the PM at any time. A new one is appointed  after a winning a vote of the party .This is the process currently happening in the UK after Theresa May resigned.

    This process has happened  in Australia  SIX TIMES in the last decade.

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