Is gender studies a fraud?

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This topic contains 78 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 2 months, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 79 total)
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  • #32583

    Davis
    Participant

    I see Robert. So you think women were consulted per their enforced gender roles?

    And I’m sorry but women are still being held back. You’re under the illusion equality has arrived and the barriers are gone. They are not. I’d say about 20% of progress has been made. And if progressive educated folks like you and unseen still find it reasonable to overgeneralize about women then imagine how much progress is needed from the rest of society. If you have any doubts…perhaps the best thing you could possibly do is consult the women you know. Ask them bout their own experiences of sexism, barriers and harassment. And while you’re at it if they are striving for a tall dark douchey alpha male to take care of her.

    #32584

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    There are excesses in feminism, and where there are weaknesses in a system, unscrupulous or malicious or power-crazy people will exploit them.  This doesn’t invalidate the general feminist message.

    #32585

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I am not ready to give up the presumption of innocence.

    I have a presumption of “I don’t know”.  But when there are multiple accusers, all giving the same modus operandi, then the guy is in trouble.

    I think all this really makes the men look worse than the women.  Of course there are going to be a few malicious accusations.  And many more true ones.  Which is which?  I don’t know.

    #32587

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The beautiful first lady of the United States know a lot about powerful douchebags, doesn’t she? My girlfriend has a master’s degree in nursing earned after a stint as a medic in the US Army. She is a tall, thin blonde who has been subjugated to two cases of verbal, threatening male behavior. It is terrible, I agree. She dealt with it through official channels and the offenders were punished.

    However she also loves her now deceased father and saw the great injustice that he was dealt in divorce court. He never recovered. Bordering on homeless, living onboard a moldy dilapidated boat. Oh yes, the homeless guys. I would see them whenever I drove home from work. Living in the woods, adjacent to the woman’s refugee housing. People with no safety net at all. Weekly pickups by the coroner’s wagon.

    If women want the burden of courtship, the right to be dropped off into a shitstorm of a battlefield, to give up their lopsided claim on child custody, family law outcomes and welfare, their comparatively light sentencing by criminal courts and their claim on 70% of the bedroom closet space we will finally be getting somewhere close to equality.

    Now if you wanna talk about women stuck in theocracies…Let do.

    #32588

    Davis
    Participant

    So you think that dealing with barriers to getting jobs, a 1 in 3 likelihood of being sexually assaulted, barriers to being taken seriously in managerial positions, facing endless sexual harassment in the military and a dirth of misogeny on a weekly basis…is about the equivalent of men having to give up a little big of their closet space and thinking they must make a little more effort while dating and women being given slightly more child custody during divoerces. Yes Robert…I can see how those things must seem really equivalent. It must make being a man feel like such an avalanche of unfairness and oppression. When will women ever learn to make compromises and remove all the barriers than men face on a daily basis.

    In the mean time, more women would sign up to join the military if their female friends weren’t sexually harassed all the time and the military made it actually possible to clean that rampant behavior up (at levels you wouldn’t believe). Men facing higher sentencing is not the result of women fighting for their rights but the result of a harsh American penal system which can easily be addressed outside the issue of gender equality. Men only think they have to put more effort into the beginning of dating. Ask your girlfriend how much effort she’s put into your relationship and the enormous amount of compromises she’s problably made that you’ve never even realised.

    #32589

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Sorry you didn’t get that the ‘closet space’ was a joke. Perhaps you needed a women to point that out to you because nearly every white male is portrayed on TV series and in ads as a hapless Homer Simpson of a mess just waiting for a wise, omniscient woman to teach him an important lesson. If more women studied for useful degrees such as engineering or trades such as air conditioning repair instead of ‘gender studies’; there are more than enough great jobs just waiting for them. Amazing how Elizabeth Holmes was able to rise against all this sexism, you know being a woman and all.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/health/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-fraud.html

    Never gonna agree with you that entitled western woman are suffering an inordinate amount compared to anyone else. I will leave it at that. Gotta run. I have 67 pairs of shoes to chose from, this is not easy you know.

    #32590

    Unseen
    Participant

    The conclusion, assuming that there is some truth to some of the allegations..

    This is a problem for me. I am not ready to give up the presumption of innocence. Why are you assuming anything? Are you being a protector of women? That is sexist you know.

    I think that the more allegations there are, the more likely one or two have some foundation in fact.  A presumption of innocence, I feel, applies to charges against a specific person, but my remark was in general to a group.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Unseen.
    #32594

    Davis
    Participant

    I am not ready to give up the presumption of innocence.

    Only when it comes to rape. I doubt you show much skepticism to claims of murder, theft, embezzlement, wife abuse. But people like you are immediately skeptical of rape and are less likely to believe accusers as they would of other crimes because only until recently it was never seen as the same class of crime, it was even taboo and it was easier not to believe women than take it seriously. It’s still difficult in 2020 to get police to even sit down and write out a full report. Conviction rates are nothing remotely close as what they are with far lesser crimes. It’s simply a long standing cultural condition to dismiss rape. I will go along with innocent until proven guilty with rape…not with other crimes…but with rape I’m willing to show skepticism, question the motives behind the woman making the claim and terribly concerned for the extremely unlikely probability that it’s false and how the poor guy might suffer. After all…it’s a third rate crime. That’s the just of the reaction.

    #32595

    Unseen
    Participant

    I am not ready to give up the presumption of innocence.

    Only when it comes to rape. I doubt you show much skepticism to claims of murder, theft, embezzlement, wife abuse. But people like you are immediately skeptical of rape and are less likely to believe accusers as they would of other crimes because only until recently it was never seen as the same class of crime, it was even taboo and it was easier not to believe women than take it seriously. It’s still difficult in 2020 to get police to even sit down and write out a full report. Conviction rates are nothing remotely close as what they are with far lesser crimes. It’s simply a long standing cultural condition to dismiss rape. I will go along with innocent until proven guilty with rape…not with other crimes…but with rape I’m willing to show skepticism, question the motives behind the woman making the claim and terribly concerned for the extremely unlikely probability that it’s false and how the poor guy might suffer. After all…it’s a third rate crime. That’s the just of the reaction.

    There are enough instances of fraudulent rape claims to justify some skepticism. I don’t even know what a fraudulent assertion of murder would look like. We do have a system which offers rewards for cooked up sexual abuse charges. Embezzlement and theft usually allow for a great degree of verification, too. While charges of rape shouldn’t be tossed lightly aside, surely keeping an open mind about such charges is justified since they typically refer to situations that take place in private circumstances, turning it into a classic “He says, she says” type of situation.

    There is a large amount of motivation when it comes to such claims, too. If one’s instructor is standing in the way of one’s career and one can see that one is getting or has gotten a highly negative evaluation, one can “explain” it as due to rebuffed (possibly imaginary or cooked up) sexual advances, for example. So, a responsible inquiry would look for a pattern of behavior,  which is why we reject out of hand Trump’s “They’re all lying” in addition, of course, to his behavior regarding women in general.

    A policy of “Always believe the woman, no matter what” isn’t justified, in addition to being silly.

    Unless, of course, you can offer an undeniable justification for always believing charges simply because a woman is offering them.

    I’m not going to deny that false claims of rape are probably rare, though it’s obviously a slippery statistic to try to pin down. But that it does happen is as undeniable as it is difficult to prove or disprove. What we must do, however, is keep an open mind and not jump to conclusions like Women never lie about rape.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Unseen.
    #32608

    Ivy
    Participant

    Gender studies is just an academic field. It’s not a “fraud,” but it’s not necessarily going to prepare you for a specific chosen profession. Not worth going thousands of dollars into student loan debt for! Not unless you have a targeted and specific way you plan to use the degree. It’s not going to make you rich. If that’s what you’re aiming for. Not all academic fields of study are created equal when it comes to income earning potential. And gender studies like many other liberal arts degrees is akin to having a “piece of paper” for paper sake. Degrees like that are increasingly becoming useless. The conventional wisdom of “just get a degree in something regardless of what it is,” is really no longer good advice. Not in today’s job market. Not in the US.

    #32609

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I would have thought that a gender studies degree counts against the person who holds it, considering the terrible reputation the subject has, in serious academic circles.

    #32610

    Davis
    Participant

    And gender studies like many other liberal arts degrees is akin to having a “piece of paper” for paper sake.

    Graduates of humanities degree have as good or even higher job rate success than those in the sciences or engineering. It may take a little longer to get their career going but there is an enormous diversity of well paying jobs graduates of the humanities can and do get. Especially in public sector and civil  service jobs though certainly not limited to it. There are graduates with engineering degrees also working at Starbucks. It is a complete myth that a liberal arts degree isn’t as lucrative or a ticket to jobs as other degrees.

    #32611

    Davis
    Participant

    Simon the only contempt towards gender studies degrees comes from alt-right reactionaries. I never came across disrespect at multiple universities I studied in nor amongst intellectual I know in several countries. The disrespect it towards post-modern blow-hards. Not to an entire field of study. Why would anyone reasonably dismiss a valid field of study because of a few charlatans. There isn’t a field of study that could survive such a test, not a single science or field of humanities could live up to a reputation of not having embarrassing scholars.

    #32612

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    @davis – there’s this:

    #32623

    Unseen
    Participant

    Gender studies would be a valid field of study if it stuck to studying gender rather than promoting misandry.

    Thinkers spouting hatred of men are treated as “thinkers” worthy of study and emulation. “If we can put a man on the moon, why not all of them?” Whether said seriously or as “just a joke,” imagine if it went “If we can put a black man…?” Why should we give feminists a pass to make a kind of joke that’s clearly driven by misandry?

    Modern history has been dominated by white Europeans or by people (e.g., Americans, Australians, Argentinians, South Africans) with European roots. But imagine if a history of modern times was really about how bad Europeans and white people are. We’d recognize it in an instant as a course built on and promoting hate, really no better than a similar course promoting race hatred against nonwhites.

    If gender studies is to be a true academic DISCIPLINE it needs the discipline to keep emotions  and misandry out of it, and just study.

    Until or unless that happens, it’s a fraud with no valid place in a university.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.
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