Is spirituality minus the spirit still spiritual?

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Well, I don’t use the word spiritual, but I do the things that the word means to me: take care of my spiritual health, which effectively, to me, means biological, psychological, social, and moral well being.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@simon – Well, I don’t use the word spiritual, but I do the things that the word means to me: take care of my spiritual health, which effectively, to me, means biological, psychological, social, and moral well being.

Why not just say “Take care of my physical and mental well-being”.  If I ever go to the doctor and he says that my spiritual health needs attention I will glue his chakras together.

[Belle RoseParticipant]

@davis

Belle, anyone can reshape a word to suit their narrative. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing, as long as it is clear what they mean by that word, that their definition doesn’t cause pointless confusion (or confusion on purpose) and that the audience is given a convincing reason to take this definition seriously.

Right. But here we are discussing the concept of how one might define “Spiritual,” and like Reg said, a LOT of people say they are “not religious but spiritual.” If you look at the article I linked which is just a high level definition from Wikipedia, it says there are many different meanings of the word, but it makes an important point imho. It talks about the difference between “religious spirituality” and “personal spirituality.”

So for example if someone says they are a Christian, their concept of “spirituality” is likely to fall in with whatever flavor they practice.

Then take for example someone who says they are “spiritual but not religious,” then they likely don’t follow any organized religion which is the point.  The natural follow up question would then be, “so what do you believe?” – and they’ll tell you assuming you’re having a dialogue…then you’ll know what flavor of spirituality they believe.

It’s really not rocket science 😂

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@Belle Rose – Then take for example someone who says they are “spiritual but not religious,” then they likely don’t follow any organized religion which is the point.  The natural follow up question would then be, “so what do you believe?” – and they’ll tell you assuming you’re having a dialogue…then you’ll know what flavor of spirituality they believe.

One line I often hear as a follow up to “spiritual but not religious” is “I just have a personal and/or spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ”. My reply to such nonsense is usually along the lines of “Oh so you are in communication with the Creator of the Universe”?

[Belle RoseParticipant]

@Reg

My reply to such nonsense is usually along the lines of “Oh so you are in communication with the Creator of the Universe”?

Do they always say “Yes?”

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Why not just say “Take care of my physical and mental well-being”. If I ever go to the doctor and he says that my spiritual health needs attention I will glue his chakras together.

Yes, but spirituality is about more than “physical and mental well-being”.  It includes the nebulous notion of a “spirit” or “soul” – which everyone has.  I think it’s about a relationship with one’s real self.  If you say you don’t have a soul, then you’ve got no soul.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@Belle Rose – Do they always say “Yes?”

I get various reactions. Some automatically say “Yes” without blinking but most look a little confused and I see them processing the question. Once they try to explain what they mean I get all Socratic Method on them and keep asking for further explanations of what they mean. “What do you really mean by that” or “Is that what you really believe”?

“Well, I communicate with Jesus via prayer.  I know he hears me because I get answers.”

Ok, so you don’t actually hear His voice in your head then?

Occasionally I get to see someone realize that they can’t actually communicate with the Creator of the Universe and from there I get to talk to them about the probability that nobody can even with 5G.  Sometimes we carry on the conversation and then the person is on the fast track to freethinking.

[jakelafortParticipant]

The following science news has the potential to give the immortals and the spiritual folks a turbo boost.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/04/220407100956.htm

[rhonjonParticipant]

This reminds me of when I was a kid my father (a mental health counselor) would give me an abstract word (patriotism, love, humor) to define. Then he would pretend he’d just arrived from another planet and had no references with which to understand my definitions “Well, humor is when something is funny.” “Funny? What is that?”

 

Maybe you see an oxymoron because you realize that what religious people mean when they say “spirit” isn’t really spiritual. We’re looking to be part of something awesome at universal proportions. Instead, they give us this provincial book about a low-level regional manager.  It’s quite disheartening.

 

Even when Nietzsche tried to strike balance between religious delusion and the nihilism that pervaded the general loss of faith (Everything is permissible, so what’s the purpose of life if there’s no god to give us a purpose?) he came up with the mythology of infinite repetition.

 

So, maybe spirituality is the ability to give ourselves purpose without resorting to mythology, superstition, or delusion. What makes it complicated is we want spirituality and community. Unfortunately, these two together equal religion. Think of spirituality as the speed of light. Think of religion as the thing that slows you down when you come near the speed of light.

[AutumnParticipant]

rhonjon wrote:

This reminds me of when I was a kid my father (a mental health counselor) would give me an abstract word (patriotism, love, humor) to define. Then he would pretend he’d just arrived from another planet and had no references with which to understand my definitions “Well, humor is when something is funny.” “Funny? What is that?”

Of the three examples you gave, humour would be the most difficult. Love and patriotism can be explained behaviourally even if one doesn’t feel those particular emotions. But humour is something that makes far less sense if you haven’t experienced it directly. Every now and then I find myself wondering why we find things to be funny. I can think of reasons laughter and joy are beneficial, but that still doesn’t get to the heart of why some things are funny and others aren’t. Perhaps it’s linked to our curiosity and puzzle-solving parts of the brain—certain facets of humour stimulate certain brain functions in a really satisfying way and when it’s absurd or clever in the right way, we translate that in our brains as ‘funny’.

I guess if I were truly curious, I’d just look it up. I am sure research has been done coming at it from various angles.

[UnseenParticipant]

Here’s a guy with a unique take on humor a lot of people don’t find humorous, though the audience obviously does:

And, BTW, he tells far more offensive jokes than these.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Autumn wrote:

Love and patriotism can be explained behaviourally even if one doesn’t feel those particular emotions.

How would you define “love”?

[rhonjonParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Autumn wrote:

Love and patriotism can be explained behaviourally even if one doesn’t feel those particular emotions.

How would you define “love”?That depends on the object of one’s love. If I say I love chocolate I mean I deeply appreciate the gustatory sensation I get when chocolate is in my mouth. That is possessive. But if I love a person, I want them to be happy even if I’m not the one who is making them happy. This is not possessive.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

rhonjon wrote:

But if I love a person, I want them to be happy even if I’m not the one who is making them happy.

That sounds like a good definition.

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

rhonjon wrote:

But if I love a person, I want them to be happy even if I’m not the one who is making them happy.

That sounds like a good definition.

Here’s how I put it: True love (which one gets only from parents or true friends) is “wanting what’s best for the other person even if it’s not what you would want for oneself.” So, a parent or a good friend can urge the one they love to leave (as for a job) even though it will mean losing their presence one-on-one.

[Author]

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