It's not Russia, it's Putin

[PopeBeanieModerator]

Unseen wrote:

_Robert_ wrote: If you ever did any shooting with a scoped rifle…this is not a difficult shot, yet millions of American can hardly believe it possible and has to be this huge conspiracy.

Maybe shooting a person in a rolling car is an easy shot for you, but I dare you to put two dummies in a convertible and shoot the Kennedy dummy in the head and also hit the Gov. Connally dummy in the shoulder, wrist, and thigh as well, all with one shot. That’s the “lucky bullet” theory.

So we go off the rails, again. There are so many other topics that aren’t mine that one could drop this into, and it would actually fit better there because of their author and theme. I asked y’all not to do this here.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

Ukrainian war crimes exist as well. Emotions run high in war time and which side has more to hate? The West is a lot more interested in identifying and documenting Russian war crimes than doing the same re: Ukrainian war crimes.

Ukraine has been criticised by Amnesty International for shooting a few Russian prisoners.  But Ukraine hasn’t built camps for torturing, raping and murdering women and girls.

[PopeBeanieModerator]

Unseen wrote:

When I mean what about, I’ll say “What about.”

OK, it wasn’t intended to be a whatabout.

It’s at least a diversion from Putin’s crimes.

I hope you’re not skipping the request for evidence, and the question about if Ukraine’s invading Russia to commit these purported war crimes?

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

this proxy conflict

It’s just not a proxy war with Russia.  It’s a defence of Ukraine and wider Europe.

[PopeBeanieModerator]

If Ukraine is committing war crimes, they should be prosecuted as well as Putin. Yes, evil is evil on both sides. Does that mean that the context (e.g. while invading) and degree of crimes shouldn’t matter? Is shooting someone whom’s invading a home just as bad as the invader shooting people in the home? Does the invader get to blame people in the house?

[_Robert_Participant]

PopeBeanie wrote:

If Ukraine is committing war crimes, they should be prosecuted as well as Putin. Yes, evil is evil on both sides. Does that mean that the context (e.g. while invading) and degree of crimes shouldn’t matter? Is shooting someone whom’s invading a home just as bad as the invader shooting people in the home? Does the invader get to blame people in the house?

Why is this so hard to understand? Ethically, the invaded, who are simply trying to live their lives in peace should be held to a lower standard of morality when dealing with the invaders.  As for not staying on topic, my apologies. I see all these conspiracies as the same mental disorder that has gripped the nation and that is the crux of this subject, but I’ll stop.

[UnseenParticipant]

The MIC is not “the good guys.” The money our government refuses to spend to make our lives better goes into aircraft carriers, jets, bombs, missiles, bullets, etc. And the MIC is not helping out by giving their “help” away.

Military-Industrial Complex Clinches nearly 450,000% Return on Investment

Members of the House and Senate Armed Services Committees are especially targeted by defense contractors. These committee members determine the amount of money authorized for the Pentagon when the committee marks up the annual Pentagon policy bill, the National Defense Authorization Act.

Because of this critical position, the defense contractors pour money into the reelection campaigns of these members, creating a self-fulfilling feedback loop that many call the “military-industrial-Congressional complex.” This year, the armed services committees voted to increase the Pentagon budget beyond the President’s $813 billion request for the Pentagon for the coming fiscal year, a $31 billion increase from the previous fiscal year, by an additional $37.5 billion in the House and $45 billion in the Senate.

The analysis in this report shows that, in the current election cycle, the military-industrial complex gave $10.2 million to members of the House and Senate Armed Services Committee prior to their votes this June to increase overall defense spending for FY23.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

PopeBeanie,

If Ukraine is committing war crimes, they should be prosecuted as well as Putin. Yes, evil is evil on both sides. Does that mean that the context (e.g. while invading) and degree of crimes shouldn’t matter? Is shooting someone whom’s invading a home just as bad as the invader shooting people in the home? Does the invader get to blame people in the house?

Well put…and what I’ve been saying all along in futility to the four winds in defense of 119 million + U.S. Citizens who keep and bear arms for self-defense, hunting, and sport versus the less than 20,000 violent criminals in the U.S. who use arms to commit violent crimes.

But the moral inversion and irrationality is too strong with some and discussing it is one of the growing book of topics where no minds are ever changed.

So here is we, on the raggedy edge, both in Mariupol and in every City and Town in the U.S….

• This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum

[DavisModerator]

A war crime is a war crime. Even if someone invades your country, you do not have to kill civilians. That would be the equivalent of someone breaking into your house and fighting you, and instead of just repelling the assault, you go to their own house and murder their cat, dog, babies and poison the water supply of their entire neighbourhood.

Treaties dealing with war crimes are there for a good reason. If you don’t have some boundary (like saying civilians are not legitimate targets) then basically anything goes (which we don’t want). This means recognising war crimes your own nation commits (something a few countries recently, such as America and Australia are utterly incapable of doing re: horrific war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan or historically in Vietnam or dropping two nuclear bombs and wiping out entire cities of civilians) and other countries are barely capable of doing or grudgingly do.

Yes, Ukraine has committed some war crimes. They are bad. Russia’s war crimes are far more numerous and far more unspeakable. They are both bad. None of them would be happening if Russia didn’t engage in their pointless invasion.

[UnseenParticipant]

Davis wrote:

Yes, Ukraine has committed some war crimes. They are bad. Russia’s war crimes are far more numerous and far more unspeakable. They are both bad. None of them would be happening if Russia didn’t engage in their pointless invasion.

The list of war crimes goes far beyond the killing of innocent civilians. It includes things like the humane treatment of prisoners and not placing legitimate military targets in civilian areas.

I don’t think you can document that Russia has committed far more war crimes than Ukraine. Unless yu are relying on a western press that gets highly-biased “information” from official Ukrainian sources.

But, if you do have good information on whose crimes are more frequent or worse, provide your count along with your source.

Ukraine: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians

[jakelafortParticipant]

If you were against REAL efforts to placate Russia and effectuate a settlement you signed on for war crimes. A safer bet i can scarcely conceive.

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

If you were against REAL efforts to placate Russia and effectuate a settlement you signed on for war crimes. A safer bet i can scarcely conceive.

I’ve always been for “REAL” efforts to effectuate a settlement that saves lives, but failure to realize how this war actually started—which was artificially, with its borders determined by external forces in the West and with NATO using it as a threat against Russia—it’s hard to imagine this war not becoming yet another “forever war” ensuring continued profits for the MIC.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

Unless yu are relying on a western press that gets highly-biased “information” from official Ukrainian sources.

“Everything you have been told is a lie.”

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

its borders determined by external forces in the West and with NATO using it as a threat against Russia

NATO was set up to defend the West against Russia.  It’s only a threat to Putin because he is a humiliated bully.

[DavisModerator]

Sorry unseen, whatever your reply was, I’m not reading it nor engaging. You have completely lost the plot in critical thinking.

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