Prominent Atheists Dropping Like Flies

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  _Robert_ 3 weeks, 5 days ago.

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  • #26049

    _Robert_
    Participant
    By the way, do you think that speaking up against religion also “just strengthens the right”?
    At times yes, it does. And by the way Islam and all of it’s terrible ideas does have me curiously aligned with xtians at times. I also wrestle with the “gender role” concept that xtians hold so dearly. I perceive that feminists want to obliterate that concept. I believe that men and women have evolved natural physical and mental strengths and weaknesses (in general) that can augment and offset each other in a partnership rather well. I was raised by a single mom and there were so many times I prayed for a positive male role model in my life. I barely survived. She was just unable to understand my issues. Can we as a society include LGBT and polyamorous people yet still encourage the traditional family?   Is the traditional family truly beneficial?
    #26050

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    there were so many times I prayed for a positive male role model in my life. I barely survived.

    I got my “fathering” from two separate women, who set me straight and taught me my morals.

    #26051

    _Robert_
    Participant

    there were so many times I prayed for a positive male role model in my life. I barely survived.

    I got my “fathering” from two separate women, who set me straight and taught me my morals.

    Actually if we are gonna tell all, I was raised in the wild by Fronkeys. My therapist doesn’t believe me.

    #26052

    Davis
    Participant

    By the way, do you think that speaking up against religion also “just strengthens the right”?

    That depends entirely on the country and the religion being discussed. Criticizing religion (practices not people) is rather uncontroversial in most of northern Europe and society is so secular that right-wing parties wouldn’t have a hope of getting prayer into school and have become less and less successful lobbying their religious values. Criticizing the churches homophobia or their boy raping doesn’t empower them. It puts them on the defensive (a battle they’ve been losing for a long time now). If you criticize Islamic practices, you may empower them though. Especially if they warp what you said into an actually attack on Muslim immigrants or turn a criticism of Islamic law into full out Muslim hate. Which the far right try to do (with little success).

    In Spain we barely see religion in public life nor talk about it. It’s an old conversation and boring and tedious. The current far right wing party (didn’t even exist a year ago) hardly brings up religion at all but sticks to the other hate filled tropes (a lot of sexism, homophobia, racism and most important…anti-immigrants).

    The US (along with Poland, Hungary etc) are pretty unique special cases where religion is an obsessive part of political narrative. I can easily see how some forms of criticism of Christianity empower them per their victim complex. And I can also see how criticism of other religions empower them in the same sense as with Northern Europe…that it is acceptable to bash religious people.

    Having said all of this however, criticism, humour, parody, discussions, moral disagreements, full out rejection of an ideology, ridicule and even a thrashing of a set of ideas…are all fundamental to breaking down some of the worst elements of an ideology and the effect it has on an open society. We would not have remotely gotten to where we are now without it. As long as you are careful to attack the religious practices and ideas and not people and if you are somewhat careful with your words, the fact that it might empower some nutcases, is no reason to not criticize. It has to be done. And muting the criticism of ideas is very toxic and an affront to an open society.

    #26053

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    criticism, humour, parody, discussions, moral disagreements, full out rejection of an ideology, ridicule and even a thrashing of a set of ideas…are all fundamental to breaking down some of the worst elements of an ideology and the effect it has on an open society

    Good point, and arts like plays, drawing/painting, music, poetry, and other performances. And new generations tend to push boundaries at the risk (and/or in the excitement) of dissing older generations. I’m increasingly trying to understand the pluses and minuses (and causative origins) of these cultural dynamics.

    E.g. like swearing in public: Kids say “these are just sounds, what’s the big deal”, accidentally or intentionally naive or insensitive to the emotional affects of words. And yes, every culture perpetuates their traditional rules wrt what words mean and their implied emotional valence (among other attributes). Elders tend more to keep the traditional molds, while the youngers tend more to break or remake them.

    Swearing… it is what it is… until it isn’t any more. When I feel “offended” by swearing (and other dramatic language), I first try to step back and consider the person’s cultural awareness and intent. We’ll see a lot of older people who’d rather judge the speaker, with less consideration to understanding and tolerance.

    #26071

    Unseen
    Participant

    Times change and so do values and norms. I’m 72, and back when I was in college, a lot of guys wouldn’t think twice about having sex with a drunk coed. I don’t mean a passed out  unresponsive drunk coed, I mean one who’s a bit more than just merely tipsy but still able to form grammatical sentences and count how many fingers you’re holding up. I turned down sex with a drunk female at least three times I can think of and then again about 12 or 15 years ago.

    Let’s be clear that I’m talking about situations where she was clearly “in the mood” while clearly being pretty well sauced up. As an undergrad, while I was working on the student newspaper, several staff members retired to a campus bar for beers. After a while, the group whittled down until it was just me and a rather attractive cub reporter who was far more under the influence than I was, and she more or less invited me to go with her to a private place, pretty clearly not to play shuffleboard or toss horseshoes. I declined and told her to go and have some coffee. Her response was more or less “You’re no fun!”

    In grad school, I, along with another male student and a female student, went to a local bar after class. The claim to fame of this bar was that they carried over 100 foreign and domestic beers (nowadays, the number of brands has proliferated and I wouldn’t be surprised if the local Whole Foods carries that many or more).

    Well, he and I had maybe two beers each but she downed maybe three shots of whiskey. As she drank, we heard the story of her unhappy marriage. We gave her a lift home and she grew pretty palsy-walsy along the way. As we pulled up, she invited us both to come in. I looked at him and he looked at me and we both simultaneously pleaded that we had commitments and maybe some other time. Some other time, of course, never happened. She steered clear of us socially after that.

    Also while in grad school, the Dean of Students’ receptionist—a very pretty woman a few years older than me—invited me over for drinks and socializing after work. She did a lot more drinking than I did and became a sloppy and seductive drunk. Rather than give in, I put her to bed and really became glad I didn’t become sexually cooperative when she in a matter of minutes barfed on the floor next to her bed, being unable to get up and reach the toilet quickly enough. The next day, she apologized and asked me to keep it just between us. This is the first time I’ve even mentioned it to anyone in around fifty years.

    The more recent one happened as I said maybe 12 or 15 years ago when there was a young woman I wanted to do some pinup style work with. I was staying in a hotel because I had done some other photo work there earlier in the day. She showed up tipsy. We worked for a while and then she started to show signs of being in the mood for some hanky-panky. I told her that I had things to do and asked her to leave, telling her that I wasn’t comfortable since she was a bit drunk. She got upset and, once again, I got the “You’re no fun” treatment.

    I actually think that majoring in philosophy and being interested in things like ethics has cost me some sex. LOL

    However, I think I did the right thing in each case.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  Unseen.
    #26074

    _Robert_
    Participant

    What a pansy (just kidding). As I grew taller and stronger I noticed women were paying attention. Even had my girlfriend’s mother come on real strong. So no…no way to rolling around with stinkin’ drunk girls for me as well. However I was talking to a guy who is like 5’5″ and the only two women who had sex with him he married. His 1st wife was a huge brute who beat the crap out of him and then cheated on him and left him. I doubt very much that he would turn down an opportunity with a drunk girl. But that never happened for him. He’s unattractive and not famous.

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