Short video with almost too much to think about

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen, i brought up psychopaths because according to some psych. literature they do it without drawing on empathic feelings/emotions and if the sci-fi like prognostications of super intelligence/singularity emerge then they will too.

You may well be right about how it will be disposed to homos or you may be wrong. If it is like we are then we are toasted already. I simply do not feel it is fair to extrapolate from our experience. We are the artificial intelligence. Biology fucks up reasoning endlessly.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Psychopaths are very unemotional, according to Athena Walker, a self-identifying psychopath who writes very entertainingly on quora.com.

They have to get through life without (at least, negative) emotions.  Therefore they have to use their brains where we would use our emotions.  That’s how I understand it.

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Psychopaths are very unemotional, according to Athena Walker, a self-identifying psychopath who writes very entertainingly on quora.com. They have to get through life without (at least, negative) emotions. Therefore they have to use their brains where we would use our emotions. That’s how I understand it.

Or…that’s what a self-described psychopath wants you to think. I think you’ll find that a certain degree of psychopathy is a factor in succeeding in many fields, but especially business. Business is basically economic warfare and you can’t spend a lot of time worrying about what your opponent will feel if you wipe him out.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Yeah, what an advantage psycopathy is if the objective is simply to “get ahead”.

Even if you are a dull witted psychopath you can become a demagogue. His orangeness is a prime example. For the masses to receive a charismatic leader it seems that leader is best served being meretricious, suspicious, vicious, malicious and perhaps seditious.

In business the advantages are evident.

[DavisModerator]

Psychopaths are hardly emotionless. They simply experience much lower amounts of empathy and guilt. They still feel pain, loss, frustration, emotional needs etc. They also tend to be less insecure and inhibited.

I would also highly advise being weary of what people say on Quora and not using it as a source for anything.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

I’m pretty sure they also don’t feel fear, or recognise fear, in addition to lacking empathic concern, guilt and conscience etc.  They don’t respond to punishment, but they respond to reward.

[DavisModerator]

Simon I don’t know where you are getting your information. They experience fear. They may have less inhibitions dealing with precarious situations and take more risks but they definitely experience fear and can worry about the consequences of their actions. They may not respond to punishment with guilt/shame but they will respond to punishment by adapting their behaviour to avoid future punishment or losing resources that would help them achieve their goals.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

I’ve done a lot of reading of papers as well as listening to Athena Walker.  There’s a lot of misinformation about psychopaths, and fuzzy definitions.  It gets mixed up with other disorders.  I think the real situation is a kind of spectrum, like this:

[DavisModerator]

Simon could you list some of the papers that you’ve read? I’m quite curious about them (let’s skip the quora, reddit, youtube or blogs).

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Yeah, what an advantage psycopathy is if the objective is simply to “get ahead”. Even if you are a dull witted psychopath you can become a demagogue. His orangeness is a prime example. For the masses to receive a charismatic leader it seems that leader is best served being meretricious, suspicious, vicious, malicious and perhaps seditious. In business the advantages are evident.

Trumpsters think he’s tough. He isn’t. He’s just vicious and unprincipled. However, they see him (wrongly) as their bodyguard. They don’t realize that they are the last folk in the world he’d want to spend any buddy-time with.

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

I’m pretty sure they also don’t feel fear, or recognise fear, in addition to lacking empathic concern, guilt and conscience etc. They don’t respond to punishment, but they respond to reward.

You have NO IDEA what psychopathy is like. Trump is paranoid and his response to punishment would be the same as for any setback: to lash out, punish back, get revenge, destroy his opponent if possible.

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

I’ve done a lot of reading of papers as well as listening to Athena Walker. There’s a lot of misinformation about psychopaths, and fuzzy definitions. It gets mixed up with other disorders. I think the real situation is a kind of spectrum, like this:

Oh, I see, if it’s on a chart it must be true. Even so, the territory overlapping psychopathy with narcissism and antisocial tendencies says a lot that’s true about Trump. He’s a catastrophically messed up personality.

[jakelafortParticipant]

I agree Unseen. Trump would sell out his base in the same way Martin Luther sold out the peasants.

Man, that chart describes a woman who wreacked havoc in my life. Be gone Satan. Long gone.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

the territory overlapping psychopathy with narcissism and antisocial tendencies

I read that people with Borderline personality disorder (emotionally unstable disorder) have more empathic concern than the average.  I think there’s a spectrum of empathic concern going from high on the left (borderline) to zero on the right (psychopathic).

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Davis wrote:

Simon could you list some of the papers that you’ve read?

Here’s a good one:

Baskin-Sommers, Arielle; Elizabeth Krusemark; Elsa Ronningstam –“Empathy in Narcissistic Personality Disorder: From Clinical and Empirical Perspectives”; Personality Disorders: Theory, Research, and Treatment; 2014, Vol. 5, No. 3, 323-333

In relation to moral theory:

Moshagen, Morten; Benjamin E Hilbig; & Ingo Zettler –“The Dark Core of Personality”: Psychological Review, Vol 125(5), Oct 2018, 656-688

Anything by Abigail Marsh, including her book “Good for Nothing”.

[Author]

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