The American left has been drifting into authoritarianism

[_Robert_]

That was good Reg. The pendulum swings. Eventually may it find the balance.

[jakelafort]

That is racist!

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

I agree Jakelafort. How dare they cast non Italians as Mafioso and engage in cultural appropriation!  Down with that kind of thing!  Now to finish cooking my Irish Dal Tadka.

[Davis]

Next thing you know, the French-Yakuza mafia will be appropriating ancient traditional British chicken byriani!

[jakelafort]

Damn, that looks good Reg. Can you get good Syrian bread there?

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

The best part about where I currently live is that it is the most cosmopolitan part of Dublin. The local schools have children from 87 different nationalities. There are several “local shops” that cater for every one. I speak some Hindi in my local Asian shop and when I go to the farmers market in a local park and after my Sunday run (post Sunday School!) I speak some Arabic when I order my Syrian food! I have more food variety here than when I lived in London in the 80’s. I go to Galway whenever I can and I am always amazed with the number of people that can speak the Irish language. I once heard a Chinese girl and a new Zealand guy speak it fluently (better than I can)! Every one is welcome and we all appropriate the best of what each other has to offer. We just call it sharing instead. Going to Kinsale soon (yet again) and after a day hill and beach walking we will be spoiled for choice of what to eat.  OK my bit for tourism is done!

[jakelafort]

Looks really cool. Maybe cosmopolitanism is the best way to counter overidentification with our tribal affiliations…

[—]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Autumn wrote:

People may not like it, but it makes its dent, albeit with a cost.

I think you’re in denial that this kind of thing is not worthwhile, that it’s counter-productive. People can scream and shout all they like: toxic behaviour doesn’t get anyone anywhere.

“Toxic”. Much of it is a reaction to hitting a wall. I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a position to have to advocate for your human rights, but I will tell you there are a million and one tactics used to not hear you. So eventually you hit upon one that’s harder to ignore and you use it. Is it toxic? I don’t know. Like I said, comes with a cost. But the first step in the conversation isn’t presenting argument. It’s creating a space where your argument might actually be heard in the first place.

Cancel culture has the means to threaten loss of votes and profit. Not enough to destroy a party or a company, but enough to make an election a little less certain. To make strategies to grab market share a little harder or more costly. That’s what it does when mother fuckers want to stonewall you.

I am not actually partial to cancel culture tactics myself, but I can’t say they came out of nowhere. It as bred out of pre-existing dysfunction. Maybe it’s adding dysfunction on top of dysfunction, but, well… people have shit they need to get done.

Personally, I think the tactic has diminishing returns, and it’s already burning itself out, but if you think movements actually get anywhere by being complacent little bootlicks I just can’t agree. There was a never situation where rational dialogue was going to be an effective option on its own. That’s just not how the game board was set up,

[Simon Paynton]

Well @autumn, that’s a good answer.  I’ve been in the counter culture all my life, and we do like to make a fuss about things that are wrong.

[Simon Paynton]

@davis – toxic behaviour is never acceptable.

[Belle Rose]

The American left has been drifting into authoritarianism

We’re just now noticing this?? Lol 😂 jk

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

I have heard the horseshoe theory of politics mentioned a few times in similar discussions recently where it is claimed that the far-right and far-left (the tips of the horseshoe) are closer than people give them credit for but I reject this theory.

[Simon Paynton]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

I reject this theory.

Low-conscientiousness conservatives, but not low-conscientiousness liberals, are responsible for most spreading of misinformation.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/01/14/we-found-the-one-group-of-americans-who-are-most-likely-to-spread-fake-news-526973

[—]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

I have heard the horseshoe theory of politics mentioned a few times in similar discussions recently where it is claimed that the far-right and far-left (the tips of the horseshoe) are closer than people give them credit for but I reject this theory.

Likewise, I’d be surprised if it were generally true. What I do think happens is there are certain people who are actually not left or right aligned, but seeing themselves as staunchly anti-establishment pushes them toward the fringe. They may, incidentally, end up on the left or right, but there is no positive value keeping them there.

For instance, they may end up far left if a far left party or movement wants to dismantle the capitalistic side of the pharmaceutical industry. This doesn’t mean they embrace the positive value of wanting to make access to medication affordable and equitable by putting reins on profit motive—they just want to see “Big Pharma” taken down a peg because they aren’t keen on any of it, including the medical science aspect.

With covid, I’ve seen people I know flip from from aligning themselves far left to voting—something they’d not actually done before—for a fringe, far-right party for just that reason. It seems like a big jump from far left to far right until you realize that they held almost nothing in common with the far left. They just got stuck there because it was too uncomfortable close to the centre. They weren’t really for anything on the left or the right. They were merely against certain things. When the far-right lashed out against vaccines and vaccine mandates, it became a sort of ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ situation.

So it wasn’t a horseshoe in that case, even if it may seem like it at a cursory glance.

[Davis]

Simon, we are all responsible for spreading misinformation, not just arbitrary groups. I would highly recommend taking a break from obsessively worrying about “left and right” or even “liberal and conservative”. They are useful for classification and vague generalisations which can launch to something more useful, but at some point they totally lose their usefulness and in fact become detrimental to gaining knowledge.

Keep in mind, you yourself have parroted TONS of disinformation in the last few months and you could hardly be called far-left or far-right. Just…take it easy with generalisations. They are toxic in their own way. Believe me.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by Davis.

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