The Power of Prayer

[jakelafort]

Belle, I am not kidding.

How is it relevant?

Getting a good job is good for mental health.  Discovering that a person loves you when you had thought you were unimportant to them is good for mental health.  Taking the right medication can be good for mental health. Getting sufficient sleep likewise good for mental health.

So?

[tom sarbeck]

Simon, this atheist gets along just fine w/o feeling a need to believe a god exists because the god he’d been told existed was a pluperfect, slave-driving, tightwad bastard.

Tightwad? Yes. The Catholic god wanted me to have children but refused to contribute to their upkeep.

Another benefit. I get to challenge xians to produce evidence. I’m a sadistic atheist.

 

[.]

@jakelafort

It’s relevant because it begs of the question WHY? Why did we evolve to believe in a God? Evolution is evolution and it doesn’t make “decisions.” So why did we evolve to believe in Gods and why is it BENEFICIAL for us to do so if it isn’t so? Other things that evolve serve a purpose (like we talked about.” And evolution didn’t “think it up” like “Hey you know what we are going to add to the gene pool today? We’re going to make it necessary for mental health to believe in a supernatural force. This is a great idea….”…..

[Simon Paynton]

I would say that the purposes why we believe in God, evolved as purposes, but then these got filled by the religious God somewhere along the line.

These same purposes can be fulfilled by other means, for example by atheists, who don’t miss God.

[Tom Sarbeck]

Belle, if you evolved to believe in a god, you did not evolve to argue with atheists! Knock it off!

 

[.]

@tomstarbeck

Belle, if you evolved to believe in a god, you did not evolve to argue with atheists! Knock it off!

First of all I’m not “arguing.” Second of all – you said nothing to address the issue…only to tell me to be quiet. Is that because you can’t think of a reason why I’m wrong?

[jakelafort]

Belle, once again, it is misleading to conceive of hominids having evolved to believe in gods.  Our biology makes SOME of us vulnerable to believing in gods. Not all of us.  Our propensity for belief is a function of our upbringing,  and our intelligence.  Keep in mind also that not all people in all places have belief in gods.  There are other forms of superstition.  Also it is wise to be cognizant how the population at large is losing faith.  Praise god for that!   Also, as previously indicated,  it is equally valid to say we humans have evolved to believe in ghosts.

On the other hand it is valid to say we evolved a fight or flight response.  When threatened a non-response or catatonic response can be fatal and in turn the person so wired is less apt to reproduce and to pass on that catatonic response.  Unfortunately this adaption of fight or flight is detrimental in some panic disorders and anxiety or so i suspect.

Faith and prayer may well be good for theists and their mental health  although it is not good for all of the victims of religious persecution.  Nonbelievers can find alternatives to faith and prayer that are similarly beneficial for mental health.  Here is an article questioning the idea that faith and prayer are the sine qua non of good mental health. https://psmag.com/social-justice/atheists-are-as-emotionally-healthy-as-believers

It is not the case that believing in gods is necessary to good mental health.  And while many argue that religion once served a valuable role in society it certainly does not any longer.  I will decline the diatribe that is brewing in my gut.  Suffice it to say that religion is detrimental to the mental health of all the people who are excluded and discriminated against.  So why would we have evolved to be victimized by the tonic of belief? Thankfully we are defenestrating the tonic in large measure.  Yeah i know there are a lot of muslims but the ranks of theists  are diminishing.

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand there are studies showing the efficacy of prayer.  Prayer does not have a prayer.

And as Bertrand Russell and nine gazillion thinkers have pointed out, all of the theists cannot be right.  If an atheists rejects 1000 and a theist rejects 999 then why not dump yours?

[.]

@jakelafort

Maybe you can help me answer some of the other questions I have.

https://atheistzone.com/groups/ptsd-support-and-recovery/forum/topic/20-questions/

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

We have not evolved to believe in gods or anything supernatural.

[jakelafort]

Belle, it says i cant answer.

[.]

@Reg yes we have

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211511/Why-born-believe-God-Its-wired-brain-says-psychologist.html

Evolutionary Studies Suggest that Atheists, Whatever They Say to the Contrary, Really Do Believe in God

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129528196

There is plenty more where that came from

 

[.]

@jake

RE: Belle, it says i cant answer.

What says you can’t answer? Where? What are you talking about?

[PopeBeanie]

OK, I’m a dog, and my master and I just arrived at the dog park. Yay! I dream about this, a lot!

So I run out there for the meets and greets, and it’s exciting. Dog pesonalities vary from super-friendly to super-hostile… you just have to figure out who is which, or which is whom, or something like that. (Please forgive my english and typing skills.) And we try not to get hurt while playing this game.

Fortunately, there are a lot of clues, like body language and vocalizations. Some of us are very sociable, but we range in abilities down to the freakin’ abused and/or dysfunctional, social paranoid. But I digress. Here, in our group, we have masters that teach (those of us who need it) how to behave, and keep us from hurting each other.

One day, there was a fight between the masters, leaving only one master to watch all of us. We all believed in Him and could speculate on His Will, whenever He was around. When He was away, we’d play! And we’d sometimes kill each other. This also happened when there was a new master who gained enough popularity to split our packs up into competing tribes.

When we finally learned some words to add to our previous barks, growls, and other body language, we all just agreed to call our most powerful god “God”. He even became invisible, but we all knew from our written historical records that He exists, eternally. We also all agreed to call these behaviors we’re naturally feeling as “morals” that we need to impose on each other for peace in and amongst our packs, although not so much “amongst” different packs as different packs spread out on planet Earth tended very strongly to hang onto their different DOGmas (haha!)… and scriptures.

It is said that we grow and nurture our own consciences, and even sometimes invent our own DogGods. The the world masters eventually take us right back to one doG we’re raised to believe in.

I mean god dawg dang nabbit and for Pete’s sake and Ceasar’s ghost, it can all make one feel like free will and morality are just fricken incompatible, especially for those of us just trying to survive from day to day in our cult-leader-enforced theocracies.

As always, DogGodDiddit.

(And Kilroy was here, too.)

P.S. I forgot to mention, so as to not derail our thread: It took us thousands of years to finally start building sacred sites and churches and such, and start praying to DogGod for each other… and THEN we even had to learn to do it in Latin, English… you name it. That adds up to a lot of history there after “woof” and “grrrr”, and dragging cave women around by their hair!

[PopeBeanie]

you must 1st join ptsd group, @jakelafort

[Simon Paynton]

@bellerose – could you please specify which arguments in those articles you would like to draw on?  It’s a bit much for us to drag through.

“Evolution News” is an Intelligent Design website.  I still think they’re not sure what they’re asking, or saying:

• we have evolved to believe in a Christian/Moslem/Jewish type God
• we have evolved superstitious feelings in general
• we are scared of dying [so what?]

Quoting:

“At least Boyer is being honest that it’s difficult as of yet to provide a full-fledged evolutionary account of the origin of religion.”

– no it isn’t.  They’re just way behind.

“It just doesn’t follow that if humans are somehow wired to be religious, God therefore doesn’t exist. This is what’s called “the genetic fallacy” — proving or disproving the truth of a view based on its origin. In this case, God’s existence is a separate question from the source of religious beliefs.”

– yes, so he agrees with us, but doesn’t give specific reasons why.

“if God exists and has designed us to connect with him, then we’re actually functioning properly when we’re directed toward belief in God.”

– yes, see “evolutionary account”, which they don’t have a handle on, and which is the only way to understand this statement in its entirety.

“On top of this, we’re left wondering why people would think up gods and spirits in the first place.”

– way behind.  We already know this.

“Attempts by these New Atheists to explain away theology as a useful fiction or, worse, a harmful delusion fall short of telling us why the religious impulse is so deeply embedded.”

– he’s right, they completely miss the point, because they don’t live the experience, therefore it goes over their heads.

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