The Power of Prayer

[_Robert_]

Belle Rose wrote:

@robert

I personally don’t think prayer is like giving your list to Santa and always getting what you want. It’s not a matter of “If I don’t get what I want then God is not real” sort of thing. And honestly to think it should be like that to me is childish.

I agree it is childish to pray and expect results..however  that is god’s word, unless of course this again is not literal.

Matthew 7:7

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Psalm 37:4
Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart.

Matthew 18:19
Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven

John 14:13
And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son

How exactly does prayer work then? Do you believe god selects certain prayers over others and then answers some of them in some clever “I know what this person really needs” sort of way? Because that’s what I used to believe however since then I learned that events concerning human events are governed by our actions, genetics AND the statistical probabilities that are so predictable that insurance industries are based on them. If a god was meddling in human affairs this simply would not be true.

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@Robert: I was always taught that Jesus instructed us to pray as stated in Matthew 6:9–13 (ESV) – the Lord’s Prayer. I was taught that those are the elements of it. Sort of breaking it down in lamens terms:

(It’s 41 minutes but it spells it out the way I was taught)

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@Davis and Reg: ok I found his original question I think:

RE: You could tell us why you don’t believe your God has a reason for what He does and why you don’t accept he has a plan for you. That would be addressing the point I made.

When Christian’s say things like “God has a plan” it is Christianese” and it’s tied back to the idea that “God’s plan” in general is to unite us to Him. By that I mean that we would be able to have communion with God, know who God is and have a relationship with Him. In my experience it is the hardships in my own life that have shown me why I need God and can’t do it alone. One personal example is raising my son with reactive attachment disorder. It is difficult beyond words. I literally CANNOT do it alone. I need God and people in my life. For the few years that I tried to be an atheist I was isolated and it wasn’t good for him or for me, and that contributed to some of his issues. Then a boss at work started telling me about God again and it reminded me of a lot of things I knew but had pushed aside “trying” to be an atheist. I think it is possible that God put him in my path as a kick in the pants. As a reminder. So I would use that as an example to say that “God’s plan” is for me to have a relationship with Him and that I had to see what life was like without Him to realize why I needed Him so much. God seeks after us like a shepherd that loses one sheep he goes looking for that one sheep and for each one of us it is different. We all have different thresholds of what will help us realize our own need for God. So in trying to answer you – yes God has a plan that will bring us all back to Him. But the steps to get there are messy and it’s not all spelled out in stone. And @Reg no that is not my own version of Christianity, it is all in the Bible. I’ll spare you the Bible verses. But yes God has a plan to bring me back to Him and I think that maybe that’s the path I’m on…,,I don’t know. One reason I shied away from answering is because I knew the answer might come across like I’m trying to proletize and I’m not. So this is just my answer since you asked about me.

[Simon Paynton]

“we would be able to have communion with God, know who God is and have a relationship with Him.”

– what would this look like, for you?  What does it consist of in concrete terms?

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

Belle if get a chance to read my post from yesterday #5264 and then comment on the question in the last line please.

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@Reg thank you….

RE: What would you consider as evidence inf order to believe that the Higgs Field helped create the Universe?

Was that in Sunday school? Sorry I must have missed it. I don’t really understand what you are asking

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@Simon what would this look like, for you? What does it consist of in concrete terms?

I don’t believe there is a universal answer to that question. I think it depends on a person’s culture, and life circumstances. Here in ‘Merica I think we have the cheapest most superficial and shallow relationship with God and it is largely insincere. I think the less you have the more connected one can be. I really envy people who can truly know what it feels like to live off the land and be fully dependent on it for everything. I think that people who are most in tune with and dependent on the natural world are the closest to God.

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

No, not yet in Sunday School. But that is the question I meant.

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@Reg I just did a quick google search because I hadn’t heard of it. I thought it was some sort of trick question. I found a basic explanation and found this:

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_field

This branch of science is not my strong suit but it looks like an energy field that allows particles to have mass. I didn’t see any “evidence” that it created the universe so I guess I would need more evidence…is that the answer you were looking for?

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

Getting there 🙂 Is that wiki an acceptable definition for the Higgs field (without even intruding scalar particles not yet detected) for you? It makes sense to me in its own way. What would your “more evidence” look like if that definition is acceptable to you?

I accept that branch of science is not your strongpoint.It is not mine either. Some people reading this will never have heard of the Higgs Field. I should bear that in mind and not assume everyone knows what I am talking about. It is not like we can even detect it with our regular senses. Maybe I should first give a workable definition of what I mean by it so when I make predictions or statements about it people will have some basic understanding of what I am talking about. Especially people that accept other theories, like, for example, the Electric Universe theory or Solid State theory. The latter is a theory most people believed for centuries. I am liking the Higgs Field theory though.

[.]

I suppose that I would need to further read the scientific papers which I can easily do. Wiki is not a “be all end all”. It’s a starting point for a frame of reference which is all I was really needing to make sure you weren’t trying to ask me a “trick” question 😉 While the science is not my strong suit I am still capable of understanding it if I decide it is worth my time lol…

I’m not sure what your point is tbh lol

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

At the moment we likely have two different concepts of what the Higgs Field Theory is. But what I am asking is “What would you consider to be evidence to justify accepting my assertion that the Higgs is not just what gave life to particles but is what actually created the Universe”. I don’t expect you to take my word for it. Why should I? What would you accept from me as evidence?

[.]

“What would you consider to be evidence to justify accepting my assertion that the Higgs is not just what gave life to particles but is what actually created the Universe”

I don’t honestly know…maybe for starters a “Higgs for dummies 101” explanation of wtf it is, lol…I mean I’m not saying that to be funny but seriously, something pretty basic to tell me what it is. Right now it seems to be a field of energy. That is my understanding of it. but you would have to explain to me how that works exactly…

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

My definition of the Higgs would not be evidence for it. I think first we would need to agree as to what it is. This might be difficult as it is invisible and not detectable when using our normal senses. We can really only infer its existence but I still think I am correct in claiming that the Higgs is part of the fabric of reality and responsible for all particles which make up everything that exists, including us. I see energy in terms of particles fields and consider gravity at the smallest scales in terms of quantum loops. Quantum energy stops the electron from smashing out the particles that make up the nucleus. Everything can be expressed as a wave function!!

It would be wrong of me to presuppose the existence of the Higgs Field. There is evidence for it that does not depend on my personal opinion. Yes, I see now where my argument was wrong. I have just realised that I would need to explain my concept of Higgs Fields Theory so that you understand what I mean. Then we could discuss what evidence for it might look like. No point in trying to work out what the evidence would be if we did not understand what it was we are trying to find evidence for in the first place! I mean the Higgs does not just announce itself to people.  It has to be studied. When it is understood you will be able to see how it could be the key to understanding how the Universe came to be and how the Higgs gave us life!! Without Higgs we could not exist and then where would we be?

 

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@Reg I think I see where you are going….

But you cannot quantify everything! You cannot quantity God the way you might think of quantifying an energy field…..So “evidence” for a divine personal God is not going to be something you could ever publish in a peer reviewed journal. That is why is must be taken on faith and subjective experiences.

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