Trumpism minus the Trump?

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  • #43966

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Would it be just as threatening to democracy? I think yes, likely. It seems to me that the overall theme of Republicans is to attain more power in any way possible, even when it corrupts all three branches of state and federal government, e.g. SCOTUS, POTUS, and US Congress plus state legislatures.

    Here’s a possible hint that Republicans might consider someone other than Trump:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/trump-january-6-hearings-2024-election/670971/

    But since June, I’ve observed a shift. I’ve conducted nine focus groups during this period, and found that only 14 percent of Trump 2020 voters wanted him to run in 2024, with a few others on the fence. In four of the groups, zero people wanted Trump to run again. Their reasoning is clear: They’re now uncertain that Trump can win again.

    #43968

    Autumn
    Participant

    The thing is, Trump didn’t really run on much of a platform in the first place. Issues based voting is, perhaps, a bit of a romantic notion. If it ever was the mainstay of elections, it’s not now, but with Trump it really was a vacuous campaign on policy the policy front. The populism was addicting. This is not to suggest all Trump voters were emotionally driven, but you have to figure the fervour built up around him was intoxicating stuff for a great many.

    But with that great catharsis having come and gone, keeping that fire stoked is difficult. If Trump campaigns again, I am sure there will still be a wellspring of support. But I’d be surprised if he could stir up the same level of intensity. I am not sure DeSantis will be able to either, but that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of winning.

    #43969

    My concern is not so much that Trump will be re-elected. While there is support for “Trump-ism”, it seems unlikely to happen as many of his supporters think it unlikely that, even if he does run again, that he would be successful. But that does not matter to them if Trump 2.0 stands for election. I am more concerned with the advocates of the “big lie” that absolutely will have a negative impact on having fair and free elections. Not just in 2024 but also in the mid-terms.

    Cleta Mitchell was a key player on Trump’s legal team to overturn the 2020 election result and a member of a domestic terrorist organization, along with Mark Meadows. She is now one of several people involved in getting “big lie” conservatives to become election officials into positions to oversee “election integrity”.

    The caliber of the candidates informs me that if enough of them get elected then America is in serious trouble.  Fuck Trump. You think he was bad? Wait until you see what’s coming next. He was just Phase One. He is history and he will be forgotten about if November results go their way.

    “Let it never be said that the dedication of those who love freedom is less than the determination of those who would destroy it”. It just depends on how determined the opposition is. I don’t really see it.

    #43992

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    The thing is, Trump didn’t really run on much of a platform in the first place.

    Granted, much of his platform was dismissable rhetoric, but it energized a base to emerge, react, and vote for him in both 2016 and 2020: “Build a wall that Mexico will pay for”; “Lock her up”; more blame on immigrants “they’re rapists”; “ban Muslims from entering”, and so on. His inciting rhetoric started even before then, e.g. pushing the absurdity that Obama’s not even an American citizen. His less specific-policy oriented platform was: Himself as as the only savior; MAGA; pandering to religious leaders, Tea Party, and winking at white nationalists and supremacist. His minions kept buying it for over eight years.

    My personal perception early on was that he was an attractive candidate mostly because he represented a reactive populous who just wanted to throw monkey wrenches in the works of government, and he proved this to me by constantly hiring and firing incompetent cabinet members and others who weren’t “loyal” enough to him. The authoritarian aspect of taking control away from depraved liberal agendas was also and still is a general theme. All intimately backed of course by Fox News, and other like media rising. (Steve Bannon in particular had a clear anti-progressive agenda while running Breitbart News, and so did some big-money Trump backers.)

    I know, that’s a rant, and I wish I could somehow word it more optimistically. In summary, Trump incited and then surfed a transformational, predatory political movement, more intent on defeating a progressive enemy than on only a few specific issues; in the end they were able to steal political power in all branches of government, and many states… to the point where it now seems unstoppable to me. A rabidly reactive minority of Americans support it for the many specific conservative vs liberal issues they’re now taking ownership of. Similar to how theocracies work. They want to keep that power and momentum, which bandwagon Trumpians are willing and able to perpetuate.

    The caliber of the candidates informs me that if enough of them get elected then America is in serious trouble.  Fuck Trump. You think he was bad? Wait until you see what’s coming next. He was just Phase One.

    Current events have significantly distracted me from taking the time necessary to work on significant personal projects. My therapist’s solid conviction is that “Everything great that has happened in America was preceded by major crises”. (I actually don’t remember if she meant “in America” or “in the world”. Same sentiment, in any case. I just hope we get to the “great” part before much more damage is done.)

    #43993

    Autumn
    Participant

    Sometimes I think it’s a facet of human nature that something has to break before we can actually make meaningful strides toward change, not as an absolute rule, but as a rather significant pattern. We know things are wrong under the surface, but if they’re just manageable enough we can manage to not think overly much on it and get on with our lives while the pot we’re in slowly comes to a boil. If nothing else, Trump made us confront ourselves, not just you there in America, but in many other parts of the world. The question is, was that confrontation enough to provoke meaningful change?

    Are humans capable of the level of change necessary? Some days I think I don’t want the answer to that question. Yet somehow as a species we keep progressing through the generations. There are things we make worse, but also things we make better. There are people still invested in the work of advancing humanity for altruistic cause. And I can hope that, should humanity get its shit together before it’s wiped off the face of the planet, the ups and downs of human development will ultimately be an upward trend. But then there are those days where I can’t help but think of a line from Alan Bennett’s History Boys: History is just one fucking thing after another.

    #44020

    Unseen
    Participant

    The caliber of the candidates informs me that if enough of them get elected then America is in serious trouble.  Fuck Trump. You think he was bad? Wait until you see what’s coming next. He was just Phase One. He is history and he will be forgotten about if November results go their way.

    People are saying that 2020 was the dress rehearsal. Now they know what needs to be done to succeed next time.

    #44021

    Unseen
    Participant

    The populism that may plunge the country into a Christian nationalist/corporate fascistic oligarchic, plutocratic, dictatorship was born of the greed and inattention of the Democratic Party. They talked a great game and constantly failed to deliver. Of course, the GOP helped.

    In the end, the voters wanted to clean house and even if they didn’t all 100% trust trump (the MAGA folk), enough were willing to give him a try rather than trust his known-to-be-corrupt opponent.

    When the Dems tried top expose Trump for the ethically handicapped con man he was, they could just write it off to politics. They suspected the Russiagate thing was largely made up, and it was.

    Democrats? Republicans? A pox on both houses.

    #44023

    Where is the “Radical Left”?  Are they still sitting comfortably in their chairs? 🙂 Still can’t hear you!

     

    Anger is an Energy!

    #44025

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    The gory details Howard Beale spoke of in Network are eerily not that different than those of headlines today.

    Why IIRC, Fox News even has a member of the Saudi Royal Family on it’s Board of Directors, so even the CCA Deal has a kernel of truth to it.

    Network was actually a documentary that you could place into different slots of time and it’s still pretty accurate. Which is really, really bad.

    #44026

    While I am at it….the counter argument made to Howard Beale in Network.

    #44029

    The Network that is Faux News seems to have decided that DeSantis is the GOP King. Trump can throw all the ketchup bottles he wants at the walls of his Bedminster bunker but Murdoch seems to have made his decision. Let’s see how many MAGA heads will travel to Tallahassee instead of Mar-a-Lago.

    #44030

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Yeah. I say it all the time. The US govt is just a weak extension of the boardroom and a divisive diversion at that. I’m told the “free (/s) market” is efficient. Yeah, efficient at concentrating wealth. So efficient you gotta have a giant reset every 10 years, LOL.

    Try buying homeowners insurance in DeathSantis’ Florida. What good is low property taxes if your insurance bill is 3x the average. May as well live in New Hampshire or VT and snowbird to Sicily or something. Working on a plan.

    #44033

    Unseen
    Participant

    Yeah. I say it all the time. The US govt is just a weak extension of the boardroom and a divisive diversion at that. I’m told the “free (/s) market” is efficient. Yeah, efficient at concentrating wealth. So efficient you gotta have a giant reset every 10 years, LOL. Try buying homeowners insurance in DeathSantis’ Florida. What good is low property taxes if your insurance bill is 3x the average. May as well live in New Hampshire or VT and snowbird to Sicily or something. Working on a plan.

    I have a friend who moved to Puerta Vallarta and loves his house and the local food. Says his Internet is dependable and more than fast enough for a person operating just one computer on it. His retirement income goes much further there. Says the crime rate is lower than Miami.

    I also know of people who have moved to Portugal and love it.

    #44034

    A friend of mine who is living in Sydney decided a few years back to sell his house which was in a low lying part of the city.Where he was living was a much sought after location so he got a good price for it (about 1.7m Aus dollars) which gave him a profit of 400K. He only had it for 5 years.  He moved about 1.5 miles away but also about 65 meters above sea level.  Similar sized house with an outdoor pool for 800K. His mortgage is almost paid off and he hardly noticed the recent floods or fires. The area he moved to is now highly sought after and prices are climbing 🙂

    #44035

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Staying put when you’re bearly above sea level?

    If you don’t care about your investment & and your home is seaworthy & and you fancy fishing off of your deck it is a wise decision.

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