Ukraine has already lost the war

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Oh, it’s fear. That’s how bullies operate. The Night of Long Knives. The Saddam cigar congress. Baby Doc with skulls on his desk. It’s illegal to call Russia’s war a war in Russia. They will lock you up or throw you out a window. People who don’t have the courage to eject their authoritarian assholes deserve what they get.

Here in “The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave,” we just make people irrelevant. John Stewart was taught a lesson when on Stephen Colbert’s show he said out loud what a lot of people think is obvious: Covid 19 came out of a lab not a wet market.

People got deplatformed on Youtube, Twitter, the major TV networks, etc., for exploring or supporting the lab leak theory. John Stewart got accused of being a racist and opportunities to exposed his thinking to the public dried up. Now, he’s coming back by being less controversial and not rocking the boat.

This is not how a democracy should function. A democracy should value and encourage debate not stifle it.

[UnseenParticipant]

Col. Macgregor is back offering the flipside of what we are walloped over the head with daily by the mainstream press which propagandizes the notion that Ukraine is routing Russia.

According to Macgregor, inside the government it’s becoming clear that the alternative to peace is another “forever war” that (a) we can’t ultimately win and (b) which exacerbates a worsening economic situation. We are running out of hardware and ammunition we can spare and some of the hardware Zelensky wants (tanks, fighter jets) would really have to be operated by NATO soldiers and pilots due to the long training periods required to teach how to use them effectively. And let’s not even get into the fact that jets and tanks need regular maintenance and ample spare parts, not to mention fuel and ammunition.

Both sides are tossing untrained conscripts out onto the battlefield and both are experiencing huge casualty rates (weapons have become much more efficient over the years).  However, the Ukrainians, with fewer soldiers to lose are losing more soldiers daily than the Russians.

[_Robert_Participant]

Russians think they are going win by drowning Ukraine in their blood. Ukraine is much more resourceful, imaginative and motivated. When Russia runs out of criminals and ethnic minorities, Putin is a dead man.

[_Robert_Participant]

Look at these brilliant tactics ! With that hive-mind and miserable life back home, Russian conscripts know if they retreat (an essential tactics at times), they will be murdered by their own 2nd line.

[_Robert_Participant]

Join Army. Fight Ukraine Nazis, Steal iPhone.

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Russians think they are going win by drowning Ukraine in their blood. Ukraine is much more resourceful, imaginative and motivated. When Russia runs out of criminals and ethnic minorities, Putin is a dead man.

Ukraine is so short on manpower they are kidnapping men they find on the streets.

 

[_Robert_Participant]

Awesome Russian and right wing propaganda. Perfect material for American fascists though. Sieg Hiel!

[_Robert_Participant]

The 2nd most powerful military in the world has to buy drones from Iran, launch rockets at civilian towns, can’t mount an air or naval campaign and has to raid museums and equipment graveyards for gear. They are toast.

[UnseenParticipant]

The U.S. has spent $115B on Ukraine. There are 337M Americans, meaning we have spent $341.25 for every American man, woman, and child. If you’re a family of three, they’ve spent about $1000 in your name. But don’t worry. You won’t get a bill in the mail. The government will just print the needed money.

Are you OK with this?

[_Robert_Participant]

However:

This aid provides money for Ukraine, American partners in regions affected by the conflict, and US national security programs.

Nearly $40 billion of that aid has already gone to humanitarian relief and military security assistance. Some aid falls under a lend-lease program President Joe Biden signed in May 2022, meaning Ukraine will have to pay back a certain amount to the US after the war, plus interest.

Because the Allies didn’t intervene when Hitler annexed the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia, I wonder what that cost us?

The U.S.A. spent the most on the war, just over 5,780 billion today’s dollars. That was $4,373 per US Citizen. The cost to allies totaled 4,000 Billion (4T) dollars, not to mention millions of lives.

Seems like some of us learned lessons about how to deal with territorial expanding militaristic dictators and some have not. So yeah, I’m good with that and good with the message the West has sent to all dictatorships, especially the Chinese leadership, who are not nearly as stupid as Putin.

 

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

If Russia isn’t held back, it’s going to try and take over Europe.  The country has gone nuts.

[DavisModerator]

LOL on the one hand you get Americans saying that they “save the world” including “defending Europe” (somehow despite failing to help former Yugoslavia, Georgia and the Ukraine when Crimea is invaded) and then you have others complaining that the same amount spent on US corporate welfare is spent on Ukraine (which by the way, still contributes to the US military economy…no aid is ever truly just “aid”), in a resource conflict with a major world menace.

Very difficult to figure out which side is more ridiculous, exaggerating and missing the bigger picture.

[jakelafortParticipant]

I am not buying the Hitler precedent. Said it before and i am saying it again.

It is a different geopolitical landscape. I also think China has been made more dangerous to the west. I know both takes are contrary to conventional wisdom.

The way it should have been handled is with every effort towards peace and mutual accomodation.

What probably ought to be done is a private message to Putin signed onto by all of the leaders of the major powers- an assurance that if Putin crosses the border of any nation with intent to conquer that such hostility will be met with massive force and moreover that the primary objective will be to capture Putin dead or alive. If alive then tried and hung by an international court.

[_Robert_Participant]

Write a letter to kick the can down the road, you say Neville? Well Poland, Finland, Estonia and Latvia are gearing up big time. Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia have already been invaded by the self-acclaimed incarnation of “Peter the Great”, who invaded Sweden, BTW. What more could he do to make it clearer? Meddle in US election with a cyber war perhaps?

Davis just hates the US because it’s cool to do. He doesn’t talk much about the Spanish Inquisition, the complete fuck over of South and Central Natives, All the Spanish fascists sucking on Hitler’s knob.

China is taking advantage of Russia’s misfortune, pretending friendship while draining Russia’s natural resources, pennies on a ruble. Remember, Manchuria was part of Russia as well, LOL.

[jakelafortParticipant]

I aint kicked the can as a kid. Now i am a man. I aint no Neville, an appeasing devil. I aint got Outer Manchuria dysphoria. Great Northern war? Need i say more? A warm water port. A gentle retort. Peter missed out on the Atlantic Slave Trade. Like Zarex instead of Koolaid.

[Author]

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