What is God?
July 22, 2017 at 8:59 am #3792
Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator
Hi Belle, this is why I keep saying we need to teach Critical Thinking to everyone from a young age. Much of pseudoscience does sound plausible on first hearing it but that is because it is peppered with real science and because it often appeals to emotions rather than intellect. Someone told me that the word “gullible” is not in the English dictionary so I am off to investigate his claim after my “chakra re-alignment therapy” session. They have a sale on today and I am not one to miss a bargain. I get up too early to be caught out.July 22, 2017 at 5:44 pm #3797
@kyrani – so – Goddidit?
Even if the Universe is a creation/ simulation/ hologram, that is not enough evidence to say Goddidit.. but I do believe so!July 22, 2017 at 7:02 pm #3798
Hahahaha you crack me up Reg 😉July 22, 2017 at 9:16 pm #3799
“God will throw you a helping hand if you really need it.”
– on the principle that extraordinary events require extraordinary causes, or circumstances – you would really have to be going the extra mile to make this happen.July 23, 2017 at 3:27 am #3800
The following diagram applies:
July 23, 2017 at 4:13 am #3802
- This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by programminggodjordan.
Science is, by its very nature, limited and often produces erroneous theories—probably more often than not—because it is limited by current knowledge and concepts. To argue that science can’t explain something is simply to argue that science hasn’t gotten there yet, not that science has inherent limitations. To take what science doesn’t currently explain or what scientists disagree about (e.g. the origin of the universe), and to insert god’s presence and actions as the explanation is to resort to a primitive mythical concept to fill the scientific gap. This is true even if the mythical concept is dressed up in modern scientific, technical language such as simulators producing simulations. To be an atheist means to be able to accept a lack of explanation for many profound events in the natural world without feeling the need to create a mythical or pseusoscientific explanation. Furthermore, to modify the concept of god beyond what is captured by known religions, so that it becomes some natural force that is, in principle, describable by mathematical or scientific terms, is to remove the concept of god from the equation of explanation (and leaving the math and science as being as adequate as we can get right now). It is entirely possible that the actual fact of the universe and its processes is, in principle subject to mathematical description, but that the mathematics is beyond any present or even future human capacity, and, even if such a mathematical description is possible, it will not be amenable to translation into verbal concepts understandable by human minds. This will always leave room for speculation about god to fill in what we don’t understand, but such speculation will remain a deficient verbal and conceptual hypothesis, capable of human understanding, but woefully short of an accurate description of the universe in which we live.July 23, 2017 at 4:52 am #3803
caseydorman: “To modify the concept of god beyond what is captured by known religions, so that it becomes some natural force that is, in principle, describable by mathematical or scientific terms, is to remove the concept of god from the equation of explanation“.
Recall that mankind did not always have modern science; for example, astronomy once contained mythical components. (See science in antiquity)
Of course, astronomy no longer contains astrology and other mythical components.
God concept (as seen via Plato etc) is yet another part of archaic science, that is updatable in modern science terms.
A possible scientific redefinition of God, such that mythical components are purged:
This then means that humans are gods, as scientifically redefined.
ProgrammingGodJordan: “Crucially, one need not believe in the god concept as scientifically redefined, as one need not believe in science, as science is true regardless of belief. Thusly, one may lack belief in this redefinition (i.e. be atheistic to), while observing its validity.July 23, 2017 at 9:15 am #3814
@caseydorman – “to modify the concept of god beyond what is captured by known religions, so that it becomes some natural force that is, in principle, describable by mathematical or scientific terms, is to remove the concept of god from the equation of explanation”
– what is describable by mathematical or scientific terms is a subset of the religious concept of God – it is less than, rather than “going beyond”. Science keeps this subset as a concept within the equation of explanation. The two subsets can be seen to correspond.July 23, 2017 at 10:00 am #3815
@caseydorman – “The two subsets can be seen to correspond.”
– we could say that this is the “overlapping magisteria”.September 1, 2017 at 8:06 pm #4490
If we both agree that a god must exist outside of the natural world then how do you communicate with each other? What medium do you have to interpret what god is saying to you? God communicates to me in my thoughts and through other people. I think there is strength in numbers and the more people are praying the more things happen that show God is real. Do you think a supernatural belief system leave people better equipped to deal with the problem of life in the natural world? I think we need both a worldview that embraces science and scientific discoveries, but also – science only has so many answers. I’ve certainly seen that with me and my son. If theists have none all I ask is for them to be honest and admit they take it on faith. It is on faith
Belle, have you ever considered that you are the God to whom you are speaking? Maybe God is not outside of us, but inside of us just as Luke states, The Kingdom of God is in Man, not one man, not a group of men, but in all of us.
By having the divine travel with you wherever you go, you are one with the divinity, not apart from it.September 1, 2017 at 9:21 pm #4494
If there were a Satan, and he spoke to you, would you know his voice? Would you be able to tell the difference? Would he be wearing a name tag? Could he give you that tingly feeling you get, which would serve to confuse? Would he command you to kill your son, and then call it off at the last minute, because it’s a test?
Would he not show up with a bible in his hand, wearing an American flag like a toga?
If there were two beings, where one killed fewer than one dozen people, and the other killed EVERYONE except for ONE family at one point in time, which one would you think to be Satan? Which one is “good?”
Indeed, science only deals with the Natural world, and not the Supernatural… or you could call that Unnatural world, for the Theistic complaints of “that’s not natural.”
So with the Supernatural world, all you physically have is a book that is claimed to be written by people long ago, long after things happened, in a dead language that had to be translated, then “read” to the illiterate masses by a leader.
Beyond that, you have a feeling.
If you were born in America, that feeling is said to come from Yahweh.
If you were born in other areas of the world, that feeling is said to come from Allah, or someone else. It’s always culture-driven. Can an entire culture be wrong? If so, why could your own culture NOT be wrong? Every culture strongly believes that their god is the only god.
You cannot use science to sort that out, which is why the bible recommends using war to sort it out. Use violence. The Quran is similar, since all three of the Abrahamic faiths come from the same demented source. World domination is the theme.
“What is god” is a question that leads a bit, for most Christians refer to their god as “god” and not “Yahweh.” Some use “Yeshua.”
A better question is, “What is a god?”
An ever better question is, “What is YOUR god?”
In America, the Christian god Yahweh comes off as murderous and petty. He gets jealous and angry quickly. His rules for morality primarily focus on either his potential hurt feelings, or doing something that should be inconsequential from the perspective of an all-powerful being.
The rules get constantly changed. There’s an OLD Testament, but then later a NEW Testament. Guess this all-powerful god could not have possibly seen THAT coming.
This god requires burnt offerings and blood sacrifices, because…. why? Is there a COUNCIL of gods that have hard-and-fast rules for Yahweh to follow? Is this why he gets jealous of other gods, as is noted in his Top Ten list? This rule, in and of itself, suggests the existence of other gods to be the case. If they were fake, then why get angry over a fake? But the blood sacrifices and burnt offerings are required because… maybe I’m missing something, but I cannot recall WHY these things are a requirement.
This god loses his powers gradually. The first human is created with dirt. But then his powers diminish, and so he creates the second human with a rib. Then his powers diminish even more, as he is forced to rape a human woman so that he can return to earth, so that he can commit suicide-by-cop, so that he can pay for sins?
Why could he not just POOF himself into existence on earth.
So then he “dies,” which isn’t really dying since he comes back, but then they stick to the dishonesty in the lie that is the claim of death. This is to PAY for some sins? Sins that are sins only because this god says they are sins. And the blood pays for them HOW?
Sounds like a scam system, where we first observe a behavior that is innate in human beings. Then we declare it to be bad! Wrong! Then we tell the person that, because of these behaviors, they are broken, evil, and bad. But wait! WE, conveniently enough, can FIX you.
First, you have to buy into the son of god dying on a cross and suffering so badly that you have eternal, perpetual guilt. Then, you have to show up every weekend, to prove yourself. Finally, you have to seal the deal by handing over at least ten percent. And that bible? PSSH! Don’t bother reading it. We’ll just tell you the important parts. Our weekly Cliff’s Notes readings will spoon-feed you only the best of the best.
Now you’ve gone from being a sub-human, or non-human, piece of garbage, to someone who is superior to all other humans. And since you are now good, by definition, you can do no wrong. Forgiveness means never having to pay for anything that you’ve ever done, or anything that you ever will do.
Sounds to me like your god is a lie, and part of a big money-making scam set up to control the behavior of the mindless, dangerous masses.
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