What is love?

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This topic contains 47 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  jakelafort 2 weeks, 4 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 48 total)
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  • #28964

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I suspect a proponent of polyamory will say that the exercise of power in a romantic relationship is the antithesis of love. Love elevates the romantic partner. It does not put her in shackles. Sex it will be said is a desire or need that is independent of the partner’s bond. Giving each other permission to have sex with others does nothing to diminish that bond.

    #28965

    Davis
    Participant

    Love. It’s a chemical reaction in the brain. Developed mostly to ensure strong family bonds and mating bonds, which has been a strong adaptive feature in most mammals. As with all things in the human being, and all emotions we experience, they have spiraled completely out of control which can bring a lot of happiness, extremely strong mating bonds and family cohesiveness, happiness etc but also out of control irratic behaviour to the point that love leads humans to do remarkably unhelpful and unhealthy actions, obsessions, violence, self-destruction, hysteria, stalking, sexual harassment, lethargy, emotionally crippling depression, lethargy, emotional manipulation. Love is glorified as something more than just a neuro/physical process. Love is portrayed overwealmingly through its positive aspects giving it a cosmic quality of absolute good and apart from loss through heartbreak, only recently has the extremely destructive side of love been explored culturally and psychologically. When mixed together with religious ridiculousness and social mythology (there is one soulmate out there waiting for you, love is true, love is a profound connection beyond the physical) I would argue, that more than any other concept…love has been completely blown out of all proportion. That’s not to say love isn’t a spectacular thing for those who have found it an maintained it, or have loving families etc. It can be an intense almost intolerable emotion (in both positive and negative ways). But it’s still just a complex of emotions and physical reactions. And evolutionary process just like any other in which luck plays a very large part.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  Davis.
    #28967

    Jody Lee
    Participant

     But it’s still just a complex of emotions and physical reactions. And evolutionary process just like any other in which luck plays a very large part.

    Yep. This. Soulmates do not exist, as we have no souls. It isn’t some type of divine intervention that high school sweethearts last forever. It’s communication and trust or maybe force and control. It’s not “fate”.

    I do think polyamory can exist without sex though… I have before found myself in love with more than one person and the “relationship” was not sexual.

    #28971

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Davis, that is the best description of ‘love’ I have yet to come across. For me love was a drug until I matured and it became truly empathic. When I look back all I can say is “what the fuck was I thinking?”

     

    #28979

    Unseen
    Participant

    I suspect a proponent of polyamory will say that the exercise of power in a romantic relationship is the antithesis of love. Love elevates the romantic partner. It does not put her in shackles. Sex it will be said is a desire or need that is independent of the partner’s bond. Giving each other permission to have sex with others does nothing to diminish that bond.

    The polyamorous aren’t romantics, then. I can’t find much romance in letting your mate fuck a third party while you are fucking a third party. Help me out here. There’s a reason it’s called “adultery” (dilution, as in adulterating wine with water).

    #28980

    jakelafort
    Participant

    The biological baggage we mammals endure will be absent in the genesis of awareness in AI. Gives me hope that something closer to free will may emerge.

    Do any of you know whether same/similar chemicals, hormones, parts of the brain, neural pathways, are in play during love, patriotism, religious devotion, and sports fanaticism? I am not aware but i will take 4 to 5 that there is significant overlapping.

    The apotheosis/damnation of love is more significant to atheists. We don’t pretend there is eternal life. Once around the merry-go-round and we all fall down. It is interesting cuz Unseen’s question, WHAT IS LOVE, made Davis approach it in a scientific way. The rest of us looked at it in a sort of practical way. What constitutes love? As a practical matter how do we know when there is love. An understand of each is important.

    #28981

    Unseen
    Participant

    In romance, you want to HAVE this other person FOREVER. You don’t want to LOSE them to someone else. This is why so much romance ends with pregnancy. Did you know that the #1 cause of death of pregnant women isn’t complications of childbirth? It’s murder!

    The male sees the woman’s loyalty turning away from to this looming intruder, weakening his grip on 100% of her love and loyalty.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  Unseen.
    #28983

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Unseen, your question leads to the need to define romance. Fuck, that is tougher than love. Seems more subjective to me..

    But i just think polyamorous are able to somehow separate what would drive a stake through the heart of others. Perhaps they view sex the way you or i view an innocent hug. I have spoken to a few such people and they seem to be genuinely well adapted and impervious to jealousy. I think the ones who experiment with it but experience typical reactions of jealousy abandon polyamory. The polyamorous view their relationships through that same romantic/love lens but without the detrimental aspects we see in others.

    If you think about it perhaps polyamorous lives are better. Except during the romantic drugged initial phase of a relationship we all seem able to love others, have attraction to others. Thus the polyamorous live what they feel without the jealousy and other emotional detriments.

    #28984

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Unseen, i did not know that interesting/alarming stat. I betya polyamorous guys are not murdering their pregnant wives/gfs who have gotten pregnant by another. That is more evidence that polyamory is a better path for those with the right make-up. It is a bit more noble to be loved as a person as opposed to a sex object.

    #28987

    Davis
    Participant

    Indeed that statistic about love and murder is no surprise. The most interesting writer on human behaviour I ever read is Desmond Morris. If you can get your hand on any of his books they are well worth the read. Naked Ape. Human Animal. Human Zoo. I especially recommend the last. While bits and pieces may be a little dated…he is like Dawkins with atheism…very good at explaining sophisticated concepts to the layman and also in an entertaining fashion.

    A huge amount of problems related with human mate bonding, romantic problems and problems with sex are the frequent lack of choice found in most cultures with mate selection. That is forcing one or both partners to engage or marry one another or at least the pressure put on at least one partner to go along with or finally choose some partner. Specific classes of partners. Limiting who they can marry (sometimes severely) and a lot of high pressure or forced bonding. This results in a huge array of sexual based problems. It is theorized that this kind of mate-selection (forced/limited/pressured) was uncommon in early humans. Problems include jealousy, sexual inadequacy, sexual disfunction, insecurity, posessiveness, violence, highly dominant partner and strange sexual fetishes. It is even theorized that this leads to a higher rate of LGTBQ+ preference (although it is one of his weaker arguments but still very interesting). Even in modern cultures where mate-selection is relatively freer, there are still strong cultural pressures and partner abuse and even murder is a very very serious problem…a lot more widespread than people are willing to believe.

    All this also puts the cultural realm of “love” into an even more distorted, idealized and problematic phenomenon. When humans start aggregating…we really go bonkers.

    #28989

    Just don’t get ghosted by someone you used to love. Then I guess you will know what love isn’t but you have to lose it first just like the millions of people who watched the video. I love it when my lover is away for a few days or weeks…..and then comes back…….to gouge away….maybe stay all day if she wants to.

    Sitting here wishing on a cement floor
    Just wishing that I had just something you wore
    I put it on when I go lonely
    Will you take off your dress and send it to me?
    I miss your kissin’ and I miss your head
    And a letter in your writing doesn’t mean you’re not dead
    Run outside in the desert heat
    Make your dress all wet and send it to me
    I miss your soup and I miss your bread
    And a letter in your writing doesn’t mean you’re not dead
    So spill your breakfast and drip your wine
    Just wear that dress when you’re dying

    #28990

    Jody Lee
    Participant

    Problems include jealousy, sexual inadequacy, sexual disfunction, insecurity, posessiveness, violence, highly dominant partner and strange sexual fetishes.

    That is not love. That is obsession. I like to think love is more simple and mature. If that makes sense…

    #28991

    Jody Lee
    Participant

    Reg, check out this version.

    #28992

    Unseen
    Participant

    @jakelafort I suspect polyamorous relationships are not romantic relationships at all. They may be close as friends, but any romance is characterized by an ardent and intense attraction, which is why they tend to be selfish. They may love each other in polyamorous pairings, but it is a cousin of friends with benefits. Their relationship may have started romantic in the beginning but, as many romances do, then collapsed into a friendship.

    I find no tomance in swinging. Do you?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #28994

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Unseen, swinging and polyamory are different.

    For you romance is an ardent and intense attraction. That seems a viable definition albeit subject to elaboration. Polyamorous have that with partners instead of a partner. I have little doubt that the psyche of those who opt for polyamory is atypical. Regardless of the arrangement any relationship requires effective communication. And i can only assume the demands of communication are greater in polyamory. Seems to me that polyamorous are more emotionally advanced than i. Wish a person could choose not to be jealous.

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