Woke Movies

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Simon,

RichRaelian is right on this one.

Inherit The Wind is a classic movie based on the same-named play and inspired by the Scopes Monkey Trial of 1925. It portrays the clash of Creationist Religious Fundamentalism versus Evolutionary Scientific Enlightenment as a parable of the larger struggle for freedom of thought and has a fantastic cast of great actors! You’re missing a treat if you haven’t seen it. Watch the original with Spenser Tracy, Frederic March and Dick York before watching the later versions, which also have great actors too.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Noel wrote:

Who knew, STRONG FEMALE characters; WOKE. The learning never stops.

I don’t think that having strong female characters is woke.  But having a stereotype of white men as inherently stupid or evil is woke.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Simon,

I’ve heard that the latest Series Star Trek: Discovery is definitely “Woke,” though I haven’t seen it or Star Trek: Strange New Worlds.

Star Trek: The Original Series never struck me as being that way, nor did the next four series. Warping the Space-Time Continuum, travelling through Wormholes, and replicating matter across distance doesn’t sound like things that would get done by non-STEM __Fill in the Blank__ Studies Majors. Only ability matters when living in The Final Frontier.™

Also, while Star Trek: The Original Series was an inclusive Universe, it didn’t share the irrational Identitarianism and “Feelz Over Realz” mentality we associate with Wokeism/SJW/CRT/ESG/DIE. To give just two examples:

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Coding
• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  TheEncogitationer.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spacing and coding

[UnseenParticipant]

@Noel

A female movie lead who prevails despite having no magical or unnatural advantages deserves far more respect. So, Sarah Connor (Terminator) or Ripley (Alien) or even Princess Leia are far more impressive than Supergirl or Wonder Woman because they defeated the odds using resourcefulness, skills, talents, and courage that a superheroine wouldn’t need

That’s why I find superheroes relatively boring.

Now, I’m using the notion of superhero given me by my nephew, a 50 year old guy who, like you, is still into superheroes. A superhero, according to him, possesses super powers. So, Superman is a superhero but Batman isn’t. Batman has skills and cool stuff.

 

[UnseenParticipant]

I think there were woke movies long before wokeism got its name.

We can start with all the movies where white people help or save black people.

To Kill A Mockingbird, for example.

Can you even imagine being a black student in a class forced to watch that movie?

[UnseenParticipant]

Wokeism hasn’t just infected our entertainment. It’s turning language into ambiguous goo.

[DavisModerator]

Woke has become a snarl word, used by those who resist change to old structures that give an unfair advantage to certain people and keep us from giving the respect and equality to all.

Yes, some who campaign for equality go to far and use silly language. Conversely, some conservatives use vile bigoted language that paint all conservativism as bad. Focussing on either of those as representative of the larger picture is lazy and useless. Try not to do that.

Wokeism isn’t a thing. Some people are concious of how their language holds people back, some aren’t. Some do more about it than others. It is not a movement. This has ALWAYS been happening. When you use the language of “wokeism” you are giving into a reactionary movement of people who resist being more careful about the way we use language. And the way we use it is important. I still hear kids on public transportation saying to each other “stop being such a fag” all the time. As though being a fag is the worst thing in the world you can be. You can understand, that even when young gay men aren’t being directly insulted, that overhearing things like this makes many hesitate to come out, hold their partners hands or be honest with who they are. Hence: there are virtually no NHL, NFL, NBA or MLB players, let alone premiership players out of the closet. And this is a minor example compared with what black or trans people experience.

It genuinely doesn’t take that much effort to be thoughtful with the words you use and be considerate about others. Complaining about wokeism in the general, is simply complaining about being considerate to those, for whom using certain language has a clear, demonstrable pointlessly harmful affect on their dignity and equality.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Woke just means progressive.  But it also means a kind of aggressive puritanism.

[_Robert_Participant]

It’s not just “silly talk” because it drives the moderates to the right and that comes back to hurt all marginalized minorities. Look what is happening to reproductive/gay/trans rights with the state legislators right now. It is ammo for the crazy conservative, they love it. It also slows other progressive/climate change efforts. I am willing, as is almost everybody to treat people in my life as they wish. It’s no big deal. Be smarter and don’t insist that strangers and governments and the hordes on social platforms bend to nonsense and doubt obvious realities.  People classify, make assumptions all day, every day. It’s how we get through a day.

Liberals have to reign in this fantasy bullshit and reacquire their center.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ The Person Who Promised Never to Respond to My Posts Ever Again

You claim “wokeism isn’t a thing,” but it is. It’s a system of thought and behavior characterized by intolerance of free expression, policing the speech of others, enforcing approved beliefs through boycotts and denunciations, and proving one’s own superiority to oneself by denouncing the supposed dogmatic shortcomings of others. There’s a pernicious doggedness to resisting the notion that there exists more than one way of looking at things which hinders the free exchange of ideas and further divides society.

What wokeists want is nothing short of a cultural revolution, which is interesting since there once was one. Respectable people were attacked, humiliated, and brought to ruin for not having right beliefs. China eventually got over its Cultural Revolution and one hopes we will, too.

Anyway, wokeism is a thing. It may not be a new thing but it’s become worse recently. And now it’s got a name, which is a good thing.

The Woke Mob: Echoes of the Chinese Cultural Revolution

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Unseen.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

@unseen – I agree with what you say – it is all of those things.  But it also has a “legitimate” meaning or something it’s supposed to mean – to be “awake” to the fact that Western society is inherently oppressive to certain demographics – i.e., everyone who isn’t a cisgendered straight white male.  Now, is it also oppressive to cisgendered straight white males?  The men’s rights movement think it is.  They’ve probably got some points.  But they need to give up being oppressively patriarchal themselves, before anyone will take them seriously.

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

@unseen – I agree with what you say – it is all of those things. But it also has a “legitimate” meaning or something it’s supposed to mean – to be “awake” to the fact that Western society is inherently oppressive to certain demographics – i.e., everyone who isn’t a cisgendered straight white male. Now, is it also oppressive to cisgendered straight white males? The men’s rights movement think it is. They’ve probably got some points. But they need to give up being oppressively patriarchal themselves, before anyone will take them seriously.

Cisgendered (a woke term, BTW) white males who are not elderly do have advantages, to be  sure, but not all of them are due to irrationality. Men are more available to work longer hours, travel away from family and friends to take a job opportunity, and leave beloved coworkers behind than women, which combined with the desire most women feel to be the primary childhood caregiver, gives men a serious leg up when it comes to job advancement and pay. Contrary to the notion that people should be paid according to their job description, people should be paid according to their value (ability and willingness to contribute to the goals of the company). Anything different makes little sense.

Racial bias is a different and more serious matter. Any purely racist bias should be eliminated completely. We don’t need overwrought wokeists, however, because their methods in the end turn out to be divisive and destructive, palpably creating more prejudice.

When it comes to LGBTQ+ people, most Americans will agree that they need complete and total protection from housing and job discrimination as well as as much protection from hate-based physical violence as we can give them. Hate speech? We have free speech and, personally, I won’t give up free speech in order to stamp out hate speech unless it is directly inflammatory in the moment.

Beyond that, the public is divided and the wokeists are not diminishing said division, are they?

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

Cisgendered (a woke term, BTW) white males who are not elderly do have advantages, to be sure, but not all of them are due to irrationality.

1) it may be a woke term, but that doesn’t make it illegitimate, in itself.  The core message of wokeness is a legitimate one in my opinion.

2) society is run by men and society fails to take adequate regard for women’s needs, which are slightly biologically different.  For example, heart attacks in women are under-diagnosed because they’ve only really been studied in men.

I think on one hand there can be value in being overwrought, because it gets people to listen.  But on the other hand, it could be doing more harm than good.

Unseen wrote:

Beyond that, the public is divided and the wokeists are not diminishing said division, are they?

We have to remember that political extremism attracts narcissists, and narcissists love nothing more than division, chaos and destruction.  So it’s just as well if we give them a big *yawn* instead of getting wound up.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Noel,

I liked Captain Marvel! Brie Larson is so easy on the eyes! And as powerful as she was in that movie the writers made sure Thanos kicked her ass in the last installment of the Avengers. (is my geek showing?)

I have no problem with strong female characters, but Captain Marvel in particular was a big let-down. She had too many damn names to keep up with for one thing.

One alter ego only per superhero is sufficient for purposes of making the story-line easy to follow.

Also, this was not anything like the Captain Marvel I grew up with, who was a DC Comics character and before that an independent comic character:

Yep, a just-at-legal-age teen boy riding the land in an RV with a mustachioed older man only known as Mentor, consorting with the spirits of a Polyamorous Jewish King and Greco-Roman Beefcakes and using Gomer Pyle’s famous tagline: SHAZAM!

You definitely wouldn’t see this on Al-Jazeera or The Christian Broadcasting Network. 😁

I can see how MAGA’s can label movies with a strong female character as crap. They’re deathly afraid of strong female characters. Whether in the movies or in real life.

It also depends on what the women are strongly for.. There are equally strong women who are villains.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Correcting a video link
• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

1) it may be a woke term, but that doesn’t make it illegitimate, in itself.  The core message of wokeness is a legitimate one in my opinion.

And it was legitimate before the far left decided to out, shame, and ruin people they disagree with, which has sown unnecessary division in our society. We need to get back to respecting each other’s right to think and feel as they like as long as they stay within the guardrails of the law.

2) society is run by men and society fails to take adequate regard for women’s needs, which are slightly biologically different.  For example, heart attacks in women are under-diagnosed because they’ve only really been studied in men.

All of that is true, but it doesn’t justify forcing companies to pay someone less valuable to their corporate goals the same money as someone who is more valuable.  We all have a cross to bear. All of the males here, for example, are more likely die of a heart attack, stroke, or suicide than our female partners, and so women live an extra, I believe, ten years or so longer. That’s ten years with their children, grand children, and great grand children.

I think on one hand there can be value in being overwrought, because it gets people to listen.  But on the other hand, it could be doing more harm than good.

I suspect the latter is the case. Being simply wrought is plenty.

[Author]

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