July 11, 2023 at 6:43 pm #49123
I suppose the wokest of the wokest is the play/movie Hamilton in which the country is founded by black people. The ultimate feel good movie to appease white guilt.
As for a definition, I think the anti-woke people’s definition would be leftist ideology shoved down one’s throat.
I have a proposal for a woke TV series. It’s a reboot of The Lone Ranger. The Lone Ranger is a trans female who’s also a lesbian, which is perfect because her sidekick, Tonto (“slow” in Spanish, BTW) is a black female. They join together to fight for social justice.July 11, 2023 at 7:10 pm #49126
On one hand, I’ve often cringed at some of the wokeisms in movies and TV shows. Not because they bother me in essence, but because of how the right can now capitalize on woke sentiments, paint progressives as evil, and gain impressive tribal followings as a result. It’s similar to the kind of feelings I get when I see adults, like DJ McNasty, calling people names and bullying people, calling so many women “nasty”, while his tribe comes together, laughs and jeers along with him.
I’ve spoken up against the depth of wokeism to my daughters, and they were perplexed by my “attitude”. While they’re typically not vocally feminist or woke… it’s not like they wear it on their sleeves. It’s an inner drive for them, to act progressive and act the part in their chosen professions. They grew up, half Japanese, seeing prejudice even here in progressive, northern California. And my ex now very successful in Tokyo is still facing that kind of prejudice just because the progressiveness she gained here rubs off in Japan, along with being so successful as a female, as they’re still “behind” the curve of progressiveness in Japan, even in a relatively cosmopolitan Tokyo.
These issues of prejudice have been systemically present for hundreds of years. Men have always made the rules and enforced them. It’s been that way for so long that it’s in human nature which is not easy to update. Look at the blowback now. I used to be comfortable with the general concept of progressiveness, but the seemingly instinctive blowback has taken us backwards, empowering aggressive conservativatism to the point of threatening democracy.
So currently, I’m just baffled by both sides’ stubbornness and predicaments. I have no idea if/how we’ll ever get past these true crises, at least not soon. Jeebus, I had no idea the right would be so afraid of melting into non-existence, like, umm, snowflakes.July 11, 2023 at 7:33 pm #49127
However the movement is history repeating itself in terms of human nature. It is my contention that any form of ideology is anathema to reason and the greater good.
I guess any zealous ideology can get its competitive purity spirals and its puritans and its thought police. The thing is with wokeism is that it’s justified by being right, or at least, on the side of greater justice and compassion. But people use the ideology to justify cruelty as well.
I fully agree with equal rights for women, also in terms of human rights because the male half of the population doesn’t necessarily listen to the needs of the female half. But plenty of feminists are daft as a brush. I had a conversation on Facebook with a feminist educator at a college or university who wasn’t allowed to believe in evolutionary psychology, because it leads to racism – don’t ask me how, I didn’t press that point, I should have done.July 11, 2023 at 7:36 pm #49128
I have a proposal for a woke TV series. It’s a reboot of The Lone Ranger. The Lone Ranger is a trans female who’s also a lesbian, which is perfect because her sidekick, Tonto (“slow” in Spanish, BTW) is a black female. They join together to fight for social justice.
That would kind of be the intersectional joke version. On the other hand, I’m all for the increased inclusion and inclusivity we have suddenly (since Black Lives Matter) been seeing all over the media. I think it makes everyone feel more included.July 11, 2023 at 7:48 pm #49129
Jeebus, I had no idea the right would be so afraid of melting into non-existence, like, umm, snowflakes.
That is a great line!July 11, 2023 at 7:58 pm #49130
From Simon:I guess any zealous ideology can get its competitive purity spirals and its puritans and its thought police.
It happens during revolutions. It is universal in western religion. Probably eastern also. It happens in political movements and politics in general. There is something in human nature that is derived of our evolution that makes the majority of people amenable to being led, to adopting the beliefs and internalizing to a degree that is shocking so that the beliefs become paramount. A few manipulators or leaders and a whole slew of followers. I assume it was the glue that insured social cohesion and inured to the benefit of the group. But it aint working as well.July 11, 2023 at 8:12 pm #49131
It’s possible to do something woke with a movie, that doesn’t mean reducing people to stereotypes of identities that you have to make a point about. Just telling someone’s story, from a certain demographic, so that their point of view is heard, is a woke or progressive thing to do in my opinion.July 11, 2023 at 8:17 pm #49132
I’m all for the increased inclusion and inclusivity we have suddenly (since Black Lives Matter) been seeing all over the media. I think it makes everyone feel more included.
I’d like to believe most Americans feel that way with a couple of caveats. First, nobody likes to feel like someone is telling them what to think or feel and is ready to apply some (fill in the blank)-ist label indicating you’re a racist, sexist, (phobe)-ist. All the boxes have been checked, women, dark-skinned folks, gays and lesbians, and we’re now down to the last box which is trans people and a lot of the public have some problems with this category.July 11, 2023 at 8:19 pm #49133
So currently, I’m just baffled by both sides’ stubbornness and predicaments. I have no idea if/how we’ll ever get past these true crises, at least not soon. Jeebus, I had no idea the right would be so afraid of melting into non-existence, like, umm, snowflakes.
It’s definitely a difficult problem. There are researchers in the field (e.g., Jonathan Haidt, Kurt Gray, Chelsea Schein) who study it for a living. It’s essentially a moral problem, and to make progress, it is good to understand morality and all kinds of stuff. In fact, from studying this problem has come a lot of progress in the field of evolutionary ethics.
I had no idea the right would be so afraid of melting into non-existence, like, umm, snowflakes.
For example, Jonathan Haidt says that Trump supporters are more likely to believe that life is a matter of a battle between your in-group and other groups. So they’re always worried about losing some imaginary battle of group versus group.July 11, 2023 at 8:23 pm #49134
The destruction of the female lead in the name of “strong female character” wokeism.July 11, 2023 at 8:45 pm #49135
Holy crap, that dude sums it up about as well as it can be. I literally fell asleep watching one of the new Star Wars movies. Yeah, when I seek action/adventure entertainment, especially from a legacy sequel, I don’t want a 2.5 hour boring civics lesson. Disney films is looking at millions in losses these past few years but they still don’t get it.July 11, 2023 at 9:57 pm #49136
A few manipulators or leaders and a whole slew of followers. I assume it was the glue that insured social cohesion and inured to the benefit of the group. But it aint working as well.
It started way back before human cultural behaviors started usurping Mother Nature’s genetic evolution, in bands and tribes. Even before that, in some animal species, there are more examples of alpha males than alpha females.
Explosive cultural evolution, for better and worse, now amplified by rapid technical evolution. Positive feedback loops amplifying each other. AI is the newest loop arriving.
I used to listen to Art Bell to see how crazy he and his AM radio guests and callers could get. But he (or a guest?) did come up with a great term: The Quickening.July 12, 2023 at 12:48 am #49139
Yep, I remember when I was very young, how easy it was to get other kids to join in with whatever mischief I was up to. Never, ever took more than a “triple-dog-dare-you”. I’m sure you guys across the pond have some similar taunting chants.July 12, 2023 at 1:07 am #49140
@ Unseen: “The destruction of the female lead in the name of “strong female character” wokeism.”
Yeah but, I don’t see you as a reincarnated Roger Ebert. And even if I did I love watching what I like. Goes right along with that whole live and let live mantra I apply to everyone.
I enjoy STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS (Superhero’s) Grew up collecting comics and playing with superhero characters that myself and my three friends constructed with different color pipe cleaners. Way before Action Figures. I’m 65 and still watch superhero movies. Just got through Guardians of the Galaxy 3 which had those STRONG FEMALE characters everyones referencing as WOKE. But my 65 year old ass thoroughly enjoyed the escape back to my 12 year old childhood. Who knew, STRONG FEMALE characters; WOKE. The learning never stops.July 12, 2023 at 1:13 am #49141
A giant helping of woke cinema shyte:
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