Wow. Seriously??

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This topic contains 76 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  jakelafort 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 77 total)
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  • #38663

    Ivy
    Participant

    I saw a news article today about, “Our heart really goes out to all the women and girls…but we stand by our decision to withdraw….”

    I voted for Joe Biden because he was better than 4 more years of Trump….Anything would be better than that!!!!

    But Joe Biden is quickly turning into my least favorite President. I don’t think this would have happened on Trump’s watch (I can’t believe I’m even saying that!!)…

    #38664

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I think exactly the same would have happened under Trump, or something very similar.

    I understand it’s a tragedy for Afghanistan, and the world, but what could they have done differently?  The West had to pull out some time.

    I thought it was arrogant for Biden to accuse the Afghani army of cowardice, when they weren’t being supplied with their provisions.

    #38665

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Lets see, what is the next country that shall be transformed into a mini-US-democracy? How fucking brain-dead are we? We have insurrection at our own capitol, the world watches hundreds of our morons dying unvaccinated each day and we are gonna teach a stone age society about democracy or we will bomb them into the stone age. Brilliant !

    #38666

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Oh dear, it never seems to work.  Does everyone really want or need a democracy?  I guess the checks and balances stop people from becoming too corrupt.  Not every government cares about human rights.

    #38667

    Unseen
    Participant

    Ivy, Trump wined and dined the Taliban to hold back long enough for him to claim a victory and use it for his reelection campaign. Had he won, you don’t actually think he’d be committed to helping Afghan women and girls?

    What evidence do you have that the pussy-grabbing President with 35 or more women claiming he molested them and who only regards people as having value in terms of how they can enrich or otherwise benefit him would take care of the women and girls of Afghanistan.

    We were never there for the purpose of saving the women and girls of Afghanistan. It may have been given as a justification (and you actually believed that?!!!), but the real reason we were there is the real reason we have a military as large as the militaries of the next 10 companies.

    It’s all about what my favorite President, Gen. Eisenhower warned us about: the military-industrial complex.

    We are constantly at war, minding other countries’ business so that the defense contractors can count on a constant supply of cash.

    The Afghan government and the army, which was big enough and well-equipped enough, theoretically, to defeat the Taliban folded within three days when the Taliban started its offensive (the one they had negotiated with Trump). If the Afghans can’t work up the backbone to defend their country and safe their women and girls from the Taliban, what makes it our job?

    BTW, Afghanistan is a fake country. There are no Afghan “people” in the sense that Americans, Frenchmen, or Germans are “a people.” It’s a fake country created by deal and treaty by more powerful outsiders. It’s not self-created by its occupants like the United States.

    That pretty much explains why the country is unsalvageable.

    Remember, too, that Afghanistan isn’t the only country where females are second-class citizens (assuming they technically are citizens at all, of course). Hell, women have major challenges right here at home!

    Don’t blame Biden. I respect him for biting the bullet and, as he said, not handing the debacle over to a fifth President.

    We aren’t saving the women and girls of Afghanistan simply because we can’t.

    Listen to Richard Ojeda, retired Army Major and Afghan veteran. I’m sure his views are similar to the views of the many Afghan vets and Gold Star families (families who lost a loved one in combat).

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #38672

    Unseen
    Participant

    And, yes, I know RT stands for “Russia Today” or something like that, but they are a legit news agency when they are not specifically pushing a Putin talking point.

    #38673

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Ivy and Fellow Unbelievers,

    The Afghanistan withdrawal catastrophe was indisputably the fault of Sleepy, Creepy, Crazy, Cranky, Tankie, Corn-Pop, Lunch-Bucket, Basement-Bunker, Shotgun Joe.

    And entering and staying in Afghanistan for 20 years and losing 2420 American lives, 1142 Coalition Allies, 47,245 Civilians, maiming of thousands, and wasting Trillions of Dollars is the fault of Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden, all 4 of the Mad King Ludwig Dynasty.

    And it is on all of us to learn the lessons of history, don’t fight the last war, and find better ways to fight the Islamofascist terrorist threat.

    If war is a necessity to fight terrorists, the best way to go is:

    * Name names of the enemy without fear of offending somebody!   You can’t declare war on a tactic, only it’s practitioners.  And since terrorists have religion and ideology as motives, name those too without fear;

    * Do not set up a police surveillance state on the home front!  That will just be used by enemy infiltrators and home-grown ne’er-do-wells against innocent U.S. Citizens!  Standard warranted search-and-seizure and situational awareness will do just fine!  And don’t do anything that turns terrorists into martyrs!

    * Go in, allow no escape unless it’s a ruse and you immediately rout the enemy! Then…

    * Destroy the enemy and their allies and harborers entirely!  Get them out from behind the civilians they use as “human shields!”  If you can, set civilians against them;

    Finally,

    * Get the Hell out, do not rebuild!  That’s what makes wars even more expensive!  And do not try “winning hearts and minds” of people who may not have either of them!

    The best that freedom-loving people can do for others abroad is pass on their ideas and lessons of history and be the loving example.  Whether others follow the example is up to them.

    Another thing we should have been doing all alone without firing a single shot is using the power of economics.

    That means becoming energy-independent, drilling oir own petroleum and digging oir own shale and Uranium.  Maybe solar energy could work if we develop a Carbon Nanotube to send it from satellite panels.

    With plentiful energy sources from home, Islamic OPEC nations like Saudi Arabia become too broke to bankroll Islamic terrorists and the Madrassas that indoctrinate them!

    And since opium is all Afghanistan has going for it, we could render their crops worthless by making a genetically modified version that kills pain without killing people and spliced with the growth gene of kudzu, safe, plentiful, and cheap as candy.

    Then legalize opium and make it available to consenting adults from any Walgreens, CVS, or other pharmacies. The infirm and elderly get their pain relief without becoming criminals and Narco-funded terrorists and organized crime cartels are both broke.

    Will we ever learn these lessons?  Again, it’s all on us.

    #38674

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Simon,

    I thought it was arrogant for Biden to accuse the Afghani army of cowardice, when they weren’t being supplied with their provisions.

    I can’t help but think that both the Afghan Army and the Taliban were playing “Good Cop, Bad Cop” with the U.S. the whole time.

    They both practice slightly different flavors of “The Religion of Peace and Compassion” (TM) and both hate the Kuffir, (Unbeleiver) and the desparate tribes of Afghanistan did unite when the Soviets invaded, so they would both have reason to turn on the U.S.  Why else would the Afghan Army fold so easy when they could have fought?

    Also, I wouldn’t say the Afghan Army wasn’t being supplied their provisions when they had weapons that the U.S. Government doesn’t trust it’s own Citizens to own, keep, and bear.

    And now that the Afghan Army has dropped these weapons and ran, the Taliban now has them and soon, Red China and Revanchist Russia may have them for a song as well, to be reverse-engineered, duplicated, and used against us later.

    As Neal Boortz and Royal Marshall used to say in their talk-radio days: “Just Damn!”

    🙄🤬

    #38675

    Unseen
    Participant

    @Enco

    After reading your post I asked myself what you’re criticizing Biden for. Not much, it seemed to me, so why the hostility to Joe? At least he took responsibility for pulling the trigger. Many predicted that the Afghan government would collapse, along with their vaunted home defense forces. I don’t know of anyone who thought the Turbaned terrorists would be inside Kabul inside of a week. And even had they said so out loud, the probably would have been laughed out of town.

    Had Trump won the election, his pullout would likely have looked identical. The obvious difference would be that there would be no “The Buck Stops Here” response, he’d blame incompetent advisors and generals. That is, unless he tried to imagine it away as he did Covid-19,

    Are you perhaps acting out as any Republican would, finding whatever fault you can find in a Democrat leader?

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #38678

    Unseen
    Participant

    @Enco

    Okay, I got to your next post and you are a bit more specific, like about the provisions situation. I suspect both pay and provisions were intercepted by the officer class for their benefit. A situation that likely existed under Trump and why should Biden try to fix it since he’s pulling us out?

    It’s like I said, This isn’t a real country. It has no nationalistic or patriotic notion of itself.

    And, why were we there in the first place? Did Bush have a good reason for putting us in? If so, what was it? And did “mission creep” set in at some point?

    Do you think it was worth all the “blood and treasure” we poured into the country and the twenty Afghan civilian deaths (many of them women and children) to ever one American death?

    I’d like to know.

    #38685

    Ivy
    Participant

    It looks like many people think we abandoned women and girls in Afghanistan:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/18/opinions/america-abandoning-afghanistan-women-filipovic/index.html

    #38688

    Ivy
    Participant

    I for one am seriously very bothered and sickened to see what Biden has done. What a fucking mess. And a slap in the face to everyone who worked hard to make sure the Taliban would not do this…what a fucking waste. Of time and money and LIVES! And a slap in the face of people who stood behind US….Biden just completely lost my respect. I have already disagreed with some of his actions but this one is bad. Really bad. As much as I hate Trump I also despise this. Our country is seriously fucked up.

    #38689

    Unseen
    Participant

    It looks like many people think we abandoned women and girls in Afghanistan: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/18/opinions/america-abandoning-afghanistan-women-filipovic/index.html

    Trump always justified whatever he wanted to do with “A lot of people say say/think/agree” without justifying the statement with an actual poll or named names.

    We were never  there to save the women and girls. We were there to feed the monster Gen. Eisenhower called the military-industrial complex. Whatever the government told the public, the war in Afghanistan was a response to the lobbying efforts of military contractors and the generals who always want new toys and places where they can use (play with) them.

    There are women in other countries who are in situations as bad as Afghanistan’s women or even worse. Let’s go save ’em all, right?

    No thanks. There are a lot of shitty situations. Right now, I think living in the U.S. is a shitty situation for a lot of people and for a lot of reasons. I’d have had a better life being born in Norway, for example. Free medical care, free college courses (plus a stipend), the fucking aurora borealis for shit’s sake. Contrary to what the GOP would like us to believe, nobody from Europe is waiting in line hoping to become an American. We have nothing to offer them. LOL

    We get what life deals us. Some good, some bad. Some very good, some very bad. Nobody from a foreign country has a duty to fix our situation.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #38692

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Abuse of women, abuse of power, no civil rights? We get out and the power vacuum will be filled right quick by the Taliban. The abuse will be on steroids under the Taliban. How does that affect us? Under Trump we had promises to Kurds but we just gtfo. Trump was gonna get USA out of Afghanistan too if he had been elected again.

    The USA has a history of utilizing its military for stupid ideological agendas and with no regard for how people will be treated. Obama during his 1st campaign was asked about a genocide in Sudan. He said USA ought to help the victims but ONLY IF WE HAD ALLIES. USA could have stopped the bloodshed easily and without much loss if any but nope. And i did not hear shit about it. No outrage. Mass rape and mass murder? Yeah, so? How does that affect me?

    It is all a steaming stack of bullshit and hypocrisy.

    #38695

    Unseen
    Participant

    Abuse of women, abuse of power, no civil rights? We get out and the power vacuum will be filled right quick by the Taliban. The abuse will be on steroids under the Taliban. How does that affect us? Under Trump we had promises to Kurds but we just gtfo. Trump was gonna get USA out of Afghanistan too if he had been elected again. The USA has a history of utilizing its military for stupid ideological agendas and with no regard for how people will be treated. Obama during his 1st campaign was asked about a genocide in Sudan. He said USA ought to help the victims but ONLY IF WE HAD ALLIES. USA could have stopped the bloodshed easily and without much loss if any but nope. And i did not hear shit about it. No outrage. Mass rape and mass murder? Yeah, so? How does that affect me? It is all a steaming stack of bullshit and hypocrisy.

    Obama will go down as the drone President. Drones don’t result in Americans coming home in body bags, but they also are indiscriminate killers that kill civilians along with bad guys. There’s a 2o:1 ratio. Twenty Afghan civilians killed for every American killed. American lives saved. That’s the most important thing.

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