Wow. Seriously??

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This topic contains 76 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  jakelafort 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 77 total)
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  • #38730

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I think The Biden administration did a disservice to both Afghan supporters of USA and Americans in USA in failing to give a specific evacuation start date. Further the Afghanis who have been waiting on visas should have had their decisions expedited.

    Ya gotta be specific. It is not exactly analogous but it reminds me of general invitations. We’ll have to play golf sometime. If you are ever in Wichita give me a call and we’ll play 18. I expect to see you some time soon. But if you really want to see somebody and have your invitation taken seriously you say I will see you at my place this Friday at 6. Rumors of USA leaving Afghanistan have been circulating for some time. So Chicken Little applies.

    The Biden Administration was warned of an Afghani collapse albeit apparently not as fast as it happened. I bet Machiavelli would have been all over that shit. But knowing a collapse was probable means ya don’t gamble with the lives of your people or the people who have supported you and depend on you. Thus specifics ought to have been issued coupled with a warning to Taliban that if you fuck with us or our allies we will come back with massive force and crush you. We will look for your leaders first. Some will die via snipers, others drone, and still others in public executions where we will hang your head on a pike in the public square.

    #38731

    Unseen
    Participant

    Uhhh…Enco, the plan was made months ago by Trump, Biden confirmed when he took office that he would follow through (on a slightly modified date) and then he did. I fail to see how there was no warning or heads up. Where Enco do you get your info from?

    It may be that The Trumpster was reading the polls indicating an almost certain win for Biden, so rather follow through on his campaign promise to rid the U.S. of Afghanistan, and on the advice of military-wise advisors that exiting would be very messy and damaging to whomever was in the white house, he left Afghanistan as a poison pill for Biden to swallow. He did everything else to make his exit from Presidency nasty, so it makes sense.

    #38732

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Robert,

    Perhaps if we are are not occupying an Islamic land for a change, they will not have to attack us?

    Islam was practicing jihad without the U.S.A. anywhere in sight and prior to the very existence of the U.S.A.  We’re just a relatively new battle theater for them.

    Really, an Islamic cell hiding in a country made of rubble is my big concern, LOL.

    That’s where 9/11 all started, but it’s not there but here that should concern you.  I’m within driving distance of at least three potential cells.  Though I would never brighten theirs doors with my presence, that wouldn’t stop them from trying to light up a city.

    Way more likely than catching my death at the market as my local hospital has not one open ICU bed and has tents setup in the broiling parking lot. Islam is a joke of a threat compared to our own morons.

    By the bye, this whole mess in Kabul?  One very big spreader event in a land that barely knows soap and running water and definitely no alcohol-based sanitizer.

    The best case scenario is that those who make it out alive either are infected or near those who could be and could spread further.

    How do you say “The Coof” in Urdu or Pashtun?

    #38733

    _Robert_
    Participant

    9/11 started when we went kiss Saudi ass like we always do. And it was Saudis who attacked us. And it was all because of that Iraqi prick who we propped up against Iran. So yeah, lets just keep it going. We know what we are doing, right? The world is so simple, right?

    #38734

    Unseen
    Participant

    9/11 started when we went kiss Saudi ass like we always do. And it was Saudis who attacked us. And it was all because of that Iraqi prick who we propped up against Iran. So yeah, lets just keep it going. We know what we are doing, right? The world is so simple, right? Even with Japan, we defeated then when we did and secured a surrender totally due to a “black swan event,” the harnessing of nuclear energy.

     

    We should just stay there until we can add it to our long list of post-WWII successes. (Did we win that one in Panama?) And speaking of WWII, it wasn’t the U.S. who finally defeated Germany, it was Russia. We take WAY too much credit for defeating Germany. We could at least acknowledge Russia’s role.

    #38735

    Davis
    Moderator

    Biden set out his time table in April and he even delayed the withdrawl. It is one thing to disagree with the decision, it is another to say he didn’t give any warning and it is LUDICROUS, as Enco is doing, to blame previous presidents for staying and then blame they next one for leaving while implying that President didn’t give adequate time to prepare. Five months is a lot of notice.

    #38736

    Unseen
    Participant

    Biden set out his time table in April and he even delayed the withdrawl. It is one thing to disagree with the decision, it is another to say he didn’t give any warning and it is LUDICROUS, as Enco is doing, to blame previous presidents for staying and then blame they next one for leaving while implying that President didn’t give adequate time to prepare. Five months is a lot of notice.

    This was always going to be a mess and it will be getting worse. I foresee Taliban taking hostages and demanding the return of the translators and others who assisted the Americans in hope of using it as a way to get out of Afghanistan to somewhere with a better life. What a bind Biden will be in. Of course, the Republicans will probably be saying that saving American lives is more important and those people are probably Covid-ridden Muslims (who might vote Democrat because most nonwhites do), but we don’t negotiate with terrorists, right? Whatever he does, the optics will be horrendous.

    I also fear evacuation planes being shot down because, if they didn’t have Stinger missiles before, they do now, because it’s our habit to leave all our shit behind.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #38738

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Davis writes: Biden set out his time table in April and he even delayed the withdrawal.

    I was not aware. Still hanging the Afghanis to dry and a poor evacuation strategy. Not sure if that falls more on generals or Biden or some other parts of his administration.

    #38739

    Davis
    Moderator

    The best strategy is meaningless if key Afghan officials work against you and others flee quickly. The ENTIRE endeavour from the moment the US government funded the Taliban during the Soviet invasion to the initial bombing just to catch one terrorist cell (who ended up hiding out in another country) was a massive failure. The occupation and training was a massive failure. I am not sure which kind of super human leader was expected to fix this let alone withdraw in any admirable fashion. Biden certainly isn’t the most praiseworthy president but I am not entirely sure he was wrong to withdraw (with no long term success over even possibly decades in sight) nor sure how it could have been done in a manner that wasn’t a humanitarian calamity.

    #38740

    Davis
    Moderator

    Basically NOT trying to interfere with Afghan politics in the 70s would likely have resulted in something less horrific than we have now. I am not saying it would have resulted in paradise but I doubt it would have led to a Taliban. The US has an atrocious record of interfering with democratically elected governments which were heading “too far to the left” or worked against their interests. The US government basically turned Afghanistan and Iran into what they are because of this and they doomed several Central American and Caribbean countries to crime ridden hell holes for similar reasons. They also made several South American countries FAR more extreme per their interference. The US fuck up in Iraq was the worst for the world stage though as it led to 300,000 deaths, brought about ISIS, kick started 100s of terrorist attacks that happen in Europe on a near monthly basis now for a decade (including places next to where I lived) and made the world horrifically unstable.

    The worst part of this is that US political leaders and government agencies are NEVER EVER held accountable for this and Americans do not care for the more part. Stop interfering in other country’s democratically elected governments and do not invade or start bombing places for blatantly only economic reasons. Only a few rich Americans benefit, American citizens pay the price and the rest of the world deals with terrorism and instability.

    I am curious how many Americans are brave enough to admit the colossal failure of these policies (which haven’t changed), their apathy and disinterest and how much they regard the untold pain, suffering and instability it has inflicted on hundreds of millions of people.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Davis.
    #38742

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I am curious how many Americans are brave enough to admit the colossal failure of these policies (which haven’t changed), their apathy and disinterest and how much they regard the untold pain, suffering and instability it has inflicted on hundreds of millions of people.

    Not many…The rest are clueless, self absorbed and could not find “The Nam” or Iraq on a map. In retrospect I had a flawed view of my country based on the small sample size of my acquaintances.

    #38743

    Unseen
    Participant

    Davis writes: Biden set out his time table in April and he even delayed the withdrawal. I was not aware. Still hanging the Afghanis to dry and a poor evacuation strategy. Not sure if that falls more on generals or Biden or some other parts of his administration.

    Did you take a look at the Tom Hartmann video above? It’s not terribly long. I think Trump didn’t pull the trigger on pulling out of Afghanistan as a final proof of his toughness and competence because he had advisors telling him what a disaster the withdrawal would be and to leave it to Biden to suffer it.

    #38744

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Robert,

    9/11 started when we went kiss Saudi ass like we always do. And it was Saudis who attacked us.

    The Saudis bankrolled Al-Quaeda and Al-Qaeda did the dress rehersal and training for 9/11 in Afghanistan and the Taliban harbored them.  That’s how that worked.

    And it was all because of that Iraqi prick who we propped up against Iran. So yeah, lets just keep it going. We know what we are doing, right? The world is so simple, right?

    And if the U.S. was energy-independent, drilled it’s own oil, and dug it’s own shale and Uranium, every one of the Islamic OPEC nations would be mere shadows of what they are today.  We were almost there until Feckless Joe shut down the Keystone Pipeline.  We can do it again once he is wheelchaired out.

    The Islamic OPEC nations didn’t know what to do with oil before the U.S. and the West showed them.  Before that, they were rubbing crude on open wounds like some “heroic medicine” the Romans would do.

    Once the U.S., Europe, and Israel continue on the path of energy independence, the Islamic OPEC nations will either have to diversify and free up their economies and open themselves to more than just three books or die like other stagnant societies of the past.

    If they wise up, maybe we’ll see Six Flags Over Tehran and 🎼A Whole New DisneyWorld🎶 in Mecca and Medina.  Time will tell.  It’s all on them, perhaps especially now.

    #38745

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Davis,

    I’ve been getting my news all over as it happens, CBS, ABC, BBC, Fox, NPR.  I am willing to admit my error where it happens in the “fog of war,”, but one report said Intel thought that the Taliban would take 90 days to take over Kabul when in fact it took 3 days.  Another report in July said that Kabul faced imminent danger of takeover.

    But even if all reports were consistent and Intel was seamless, no one acted on it in a way consistent with the safety of U.S. Citizens and their Coalition and Afghan allies, so we have what we have now.

    Trigger Warning: If you’re listening to NPR, you’re bound to hear anything.  Their Golden Boy let them down and they are absolutely furious!

    NPR has gone from the quiet, pensive: “Hmm…Hmm…Hmm…” to: “Grrr…Grrrrr….GROWL!”

    When people on the President’s own side say he sucks, that is a “Come to The Void” moment.

    For Sleepy, Creepy, Crazy, Cranky, Tankie, Corn-Pop, Lunch-Bucket, Basement-Bunker, Shotgun Joe, it’s time.

     

    #38746

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Davis and Robert,

    Robert wrote:

    Not many…The rest are clueless, self absorbed and could not find “The Nam” or Iraq on a map. In retrospect I had a flawed view of my country based on the small sample size of my acquaintances.

    I have a layman student’s knowledge of both “The Nam” and The Middle East.  As far as I am concerned, Red China’s Emperor Xi and the PLA can have their unwinnable Vietnam in Afghanistan and the Islamic World can continue having their unwinnable Vietnam in Syria.

    Sun Tzu observed that: An army is like fire: unstopped, it will burn itself out.  It’s high time we stepped back and for once, let our enemies do just that to themselves.

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