Wow. Seriously??

[UnseenParticipant]

@ivy

Here’s a question for you: We’ve been killing 20 Afghan civilians for every American killed. I wonder how many out of each 20 was a woman or a girl?

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen writes: Obama will go down as the drone President. Drones don’t result in Americans coming home in body bags, but they also are indiscriminate killers that kill civilians along with bad guys. There’s a 2o:1 ratio. Twenty Afghan civilians killed for every American killed. American lives saved. That’s the most important thing.

There are too many lives. Like rats in a cage or concentration camp victims in a cattle car. Too many results in too little value. We become fungible goods.

And why are Afghan lives less valuable than American lives? I know it is a radical notion to question the tribalism/nationalism of valuing one’s own and diminishing others. I have a memory of a quote from J J Rousseau that if a person in Europe could press a button and kill a person in China that they would do it without hesitation. We love our pets. Lose a pet and it hurts as much or more than it does to lose kin or a friend. But then we gorge on meat and do it without compunction. We could as easily have fallen in love with the animal that is our supper. If we valued ALL HUMANS without regards to geography it might be tougher to justify a great many invasions and wars. But if that were true we would not be human.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

You didn’t read my post too well.

I blame Biden for the withdrawal catastrophe and him and the three previous Presidents for both getting into Afghanistan and staying there with a mission that creeped from the original one and with no exit strategy.  That’s a Hell of a lot of deserving blame and it all goes around nicely and evenly to all Presidents and to both Parties.

 

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Unseen, You didn’t read my post too well. I blame Biden for the withdrawal catastrophe and him and the three previous Presidents for both getting into Afghanistan and staying there with a mission that creeped from the original one and with no exit strategy. That’s a Hell of a lot of deserving blame and it all goes around nicely and evenly to all Presidents and to both Parties.

But the Original Sin was Bush’s. The subsequent Presidents simply inherited his mistake. BTW, we can lay Iraq in his lap as well. Oops! No weapons of mass destruction.

[DavisModerator]

So you blame previous presidents for continuing to stay there but you blame Biden for leaving. I suppose in some universe that makes sense.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

At least he took responsibility for pulling the trigger.

Sleepy, Creepy, Crazy, Cranky, Tankie, Corn-Pop, Lunch-Bucket, Basement-Bunker, Shotgun Joe didn’t take responsibility for a damn thing, otherwise he’d be on trial right now for Treason.

Many predicted that the Afghan government would collapse, along with their vaunted home defense forces. I don’t know of anyone who thought the Turbaned terrorists would be inside Kabul inside of a week. And even had they said so out loud, the probably would have been laughed out of town.

That is a failure of Intelligence, which, again, ultimately falls on Biden, Trump, Obama, and Bush, as well any other President who appointed some of these lifetime hanger-on careerists.

This, plus the failure to foresee the fall of the Berlin Wall and The Eastern Bloc, the rise of Islamist Tyranny and Terrorism, and, of coure, 9/11 itself, makes me think a lot of people in the Intelligence community are just human boat anchors  and screen doors on submarines.

Had Trump won the election, his pullout would likely have looked identical. The obvious difference would be that there would be no “The Buck Stops Here” response, he’d blame incompetent advisors and generals. That is, unless he tried to imagine it away as he did Covid-19,

There was no “The Buck Stops Here” from Biden either.  All the Bucks are in the hands of the Taliban and more will come if they start holding U.S. Citizens to ransom!

Are you perhaps acting out as any Republican would, finding whatever fault you can find in a Democrat leader?

I am a lifetime “Unaffiliated,” haven’t voted since 2004, and I am no longer even registered.  That’s how disgusted I am with the whole damn lot of them.

• This reply was modified 12 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Missed an adjective for Joe

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Here’s a question for you: We’ve been killing 20 Afghan civilians for every American killed. I wonder how many out of each 20 was a woman or a girl?

You assume every civilian casualty or death is entirely upon the U.S. side, forgetting that Taliban do this too and even use civilians as “human shields.”

Yes, all civilians deaths from all sides are tragic and wrong, and confirmation of George Patton’s two laws of war: One, good men (and women and children) die; and Two, There are no exceptions to Rule One.

With the plan I laid out above, however, the number of civilian deaths would be much less and not on our hands or, played very well, none.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Davis,

The withdrawal disaster is where Biden deserves extra blame.  He could have easily gave civilians a head’s up far in advance to get their affairs in order and leave and had military personnel ready to help the withdrawal.  He didn’t.  The blame for their entrapped plight is his.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Okay Enco!

I got no gripe with that and agree a heads up would have been way better.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Davis, The withdrawal disaster is where Biden deserves extra blame. He could have easily gave civilians a head’s up far in advance to get their affairs in order and leave and had military personnel ready to help the withdrawal. He didn’t. The blame for their entrapped plight is his.

I think you’re giving Biden way too much credit/blame for the planning. I think he had “experts” who thought they had it all planned out, only the rapidity of the collapse of the Afghan government and military was way quicker than anticipated. Of course, the buck stops at his desk, but some heads should roll once the full extent of the disaster is known.

I hope there’s a full congressional investigation that looks into the Afghan war, but not just the back end. All the way to the beginnings.

I hate it, but some Americans are bound to be left behind and lose their lives before this is over, but why are American lives so important now when we’ve been throwing down the Afghan rat hold for two decades and killing Afghan civilians like there’s no tomorrow?

I’m just hoping that the Taliban don’t loose stinger missiles on the air traffic or turn this into a hostage situation asking for the return of Afghan “traitors” (translators, for example) in exchange for some American hostages.

• This reply was modified 12 months ago by  Unseen.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

But the Original Sin was Bush’s. The subsequent Presidents simply inherited his mistake. BTW, we can lay Iraq in his lap as well. Oops! No weapons of mass destruction.

Very true.  Invading Iraq in response to 9/11 would be the equivalent of responding to Pearl Harbor by invading Argentina.  (Yes, the regimes of Argentina and Japan were both supporters of Nazi Germany, but that’s as far as the connection goes.)  The Little Bush Boy and Friends screwed up royal.

But to bring up Iraq in the context of a discussion of Afghanistan and the withdrawal catastrophe is a Red Herring Fallacy.  Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

But to bring up Iraq in the context of a discussion of Afghanistan and the withdrawal catastrophe is a Red Herring Fallacy.  Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Back at ya. You’re not talking about the abandonment of women and girls in Afghanistan, either.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Back at ya. You’re not talking about the abandonment of women and girls in Afghanistan, either.

I feel for them and every other victim of the war and Islamic tyranny in Afghanistan.  Each refugee and pro-U.S. man, woman, and child is a reason the Biden withdrawal catastrophe is so terrible.

My mind is going all kinds of directions on this mess.

Because the Afghan Army dropped it’s weapons and ran, will the loyalty of every Afghan who served with or supported the U.S. be called into question?  Will they be subject to everything from extra vetting to being flat-out turned away to certain death?

Because of the chaos in this withdrawal, normal requests for ID, Visas, and Passports may be bent or disregarded.  Will a Taliban, Al-Qaeda, or ISIS terrorist use this chaos to infiltrate the fleeing throngs and then commit a mass-murder/suicide bombing either at the airport, in the planes, or wherever the terrorist lands, murdering untold hundreds?

Is every Islamic terrorist cell and Islamic “no-go” enclave in the U.S. and the West emboldened by all of this craziness?

Is this the green light for Islamists to say: “We’ll do any murder and mayhem we want in the streets of the Kuffir, we’ll do all of our barbarisms to women, children, LGBTQ+, and Murtad (Apostates) and the Kuffir will either do nothing or fall over themselves wasting blood and Trillions in treasure!”???

The only good thought I’m having in any of this is that maybe Red China’s Emperor Xi and his PLA will attempt relations with the Taliban, one will turn on the other, and they’ll both get their just desserts.

 

[_Robert_Participant]

Is every Islamic terrorist cell and Islamic “no-go” enclave in the U.S. and the West emboldened by all of this craziness?

Perhaps if we are are not occupying an Islamic land for a change, they will not have to attack us? Really, an Islamic cell hiding in a country made of rubble is my big concern, LOL. Way more likely than catching my death at the market as my local hospital has not one open ICU bed and has tents setup in the broiling parking lot. Islam is a joke of a threat compared to our own morons.

[DavisModerator]

Uhhh…Enco, the plan was made months ago by Trump, Biden confirmed when he took office that he would follow through (on a slightly modified date) and then he did. I fail to see how there was no warning or heads up. Where Enco do you get your info from?

[Author]

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